Don't Take The Blood Money!

The Failed Aviation Administration has thrown in the towel on any pretense of having "the right suckers in the right place at the right time."  Marion's mantra is deader than Janis Joplin, with the agency recently announcing that they are going to try to bribe retirees and their soon-to-be-brethren with a tennis shoe's worth of pocket change.

Read this entire blog and I think you will come to the same conclusion I have:  You would have to be really, really stupid to take this chump's offer.  Look, I know many of you are twice divorced and bankrupt, living paycheck to paycheck at a buck-twenty-five a year.  So what.  Do what Elvira told you to do---do the math---and you'll see how stupid you would be to fall for this carnival trick.

First, the FAA announcement.  I will delete parts of it, because frankly it's a load of crap, but here it is:

This, from a management spy in the Southern Region---a memo they are apparently circulating:  "The FAA is providing some additional tools to facility managers for the recruitment of either retirees and/or the retention of employees who have put in their retirement paperwork. The details are very vague at this point and more information will be coming out next Tuesday. NATCA was notified this morning at the same time the district managers were. This program is only for FLM's, CPC's and S/TMC's.

The program is really in two parts. The first is for qualified people who have been retired for 90 days or longer. Possible Recruitment Bonus (not to exceed $24,000), Short term Basis (1 year commitment). The second part is for the retention of qualified people who have put in their retirement paperwork. Here again, possible retention incentive, 1 year commitment, etc.  Neither of the programs are automatic. The facility manager has to make a business case and justification for each person that must be approved by the V. P."

The official DOT/FAA/ATO website also has a glowing write-up at this page, pretending that their readership is as stupid, short-sighted and ignorant as they have been about the staffing crisis.  They call it a "toolkit," and pretend it is part of some long-called upon "existing incentives." 

Yeah.  Right.  Let me translate for you:  They are going down the staffing-crapper faster than the Tidy-Bowl Man on crystal meth, and they call it a "staffing challenge."

The new COO even said, "We are counting on experienced controllers to show the way to newly hired controllers by example."  YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.  We ARE showing the new kids the way.  The way is the hell away from you, Hank, towards the exit, and towards the light, and the hell away from belligerent chuckleheads and unpleasant hoodlums...in other words, FAA Management.  "The way" is to an employer than will negotiate a contract, you dumb sons of bitches.  It's just that simple.   

They crow, "One tool available is to re-employ controllers and air traffic managers who have retired."  Yeah, we need more air traffic managers like Britney Spears needs another kid. The FAA is so desperate they want retirees to come back full time, part time, work just certain positions, hell, I think if you can fog a mirror and haven't done too much booger-sugar in the last month they will take you. 

Let's do the math, Main Bangers, just like our girlfriend Elvira told us to:

First, note that the incentive is "not to exceed" $24,000.  For purposes of this example we will assume the FAA is a bunch of simplistic, ideological, lying, obfuscating lummoxes who are intent on hiding, making spurious claims, and generally playing a new and improved game of three-card monte on the saps they have called forward to the green felted table.  In other words...we are assuming current conditions.

In that light, I will discount the FAA's offer by approximately 16%, making the true value of their bribe a nice, round, $20,000.

IN 2007, if you were married filing jointly and you made between $63,700 and $128,500 (and in all honesty, that probably captures the great majority of air traffic controllers,) then your federal tax is 25%.  Goodbye, five grand.  You are now down to a $15,000 bonus.

According to this web page, the 2007 FICA tax rates were 7.65%.  Your bonus is now down to $13,852.

According to this web page, in 2005 the average of your state and local tax burden was 10%.  We will use this 2005 figure to err on the side of caution.  That's almost fourteen hundred samolians, leaving you with a bonus of $12,466. 

According to this web page, If you are working instead of retiring, you are pissing away a hundred hours a year commuting, which is more than you will earn in vacation time.  Nice math there, Poindexter.  Staying conservative, someone making $75,000 a year has an hourly rate of $36.00 an hour, times a hundred hours is $3600. dollars, leaving you with a bonus of $8,866.    

According to this web page, the average one way commute is 16 miles, making for an average daily round-trip commute of 32 miles, times five days equals 150 miles per week, (not counting engine or tire wear.)

According to this web page, there is a lot of useless fuel economy information in the world that I don't care to cypher, so I am going to assume that everyone is getting 25mpg.  That translates to six gallons of gas a week, times 52 weeks in a year equals 312 gallons for the year times an average price of $3.00 a gallon equals $936 dollars (let's call it an even grand...you know you go in the store and get a Snickers, or a pack of Twizzlers, or a comb.)  Your big bonus is now down to $7,866.

According to this blog, you increase you chances of getting killed in traffic commuting to work by 100% if you work instead of staying home, collecting a check every month for doing nothing.

According to this web page, there are many fun things to do besides work for the blame-shoving, responsibility-dodging, vapid, muddled, fear-mongering, tadpole-gargling, manipulative hypocrites who are currently finishing their destruction of the nation's air traffic control system.  Pat Treadway is an old pal of mine, O'Hare controller and recent retiree.  He took his loot, moved to a golf course in Phoenix, and plays, drinks and cooks all day long.  And you, eligible to retire, are doing what...clearance delivery for a smattering of Cessnas?  Salina High?  Dulles Ground?  Harumph.  See a psychiatrist immediately.

According to this web page, (and the associated data page,) the longer you work, the shorter you live after retirement.  The results are startling!

 

So let's summarize:  The FAA wants to shorten your life, lengthen your commute, keep you away from your family, put you further under the lower-level management moron thumb, work you closer to death, and exploit your crack-addict love for a few pieces of silver by offering you the overwhelming sum of---a little over three bucks an hour.  Less than you make training the newest "controller" they hired. 

And trust me...this deal will have more ornaments on it that Charlie Brown's Christmas tree.  Have a deal, be tardy, look cross-eyed at a FAAMA drone, and you're bag of goodies is toast.  This thing is a sucker's bet, and they are hoping enough suckers slowly amble up to the table and peek at the glistening green felt.  "Free drink, fella?  New in town?  How long you gonna be here?  Ever play cards?  Do you know a game called Three Card Monte?  Big players game, dealer has no advantage.  Sit down, let me push in your stool for you..."

REJECT THE OFFER.  REJECT THE BRIBE.  REJECT THE DESPERATION.

TAKE IT FROM ME:  If enough people reject this offer, two things will happen:

1.  The offer will go up.  This is like "Deal Or No Deal," without the fabulous babes.  Slam down the Plexiglas box, tell the dealer to bite your glutes, and stand by for more money.

2.  Bobert, Sissy Joe, the big Johnson, the Douche and the rest of them are going to come back to the contract table.  Either voluntarily, or at the pointy end of legislation that forces them to. 

It is really amazing to see the lengths that this crowd will go to to keep from negotiating with their employees.  It's like a flesh-eating virus to them or something.   I got news for you...I got some flesh they can eat.  (For FAA Management:  That is a formal rejection of your offer of re-employment.)

Editor's Note:  This is a long blog on a weekend, so I am going to leave it up until Monday afternoon.  I want to be sure to give all the controllers a chance to read it and the associated links, all the media types a chance to research the validity of my claims, and all the FAA upper level management types a chance to see themselves getting famous again...for their own stupidity.

Comments

[XXX@WTF]

Spot on and 100% true. Unfortunately there will be "union members" eligible to retire that will lap up every penny the F'd agency throws their way. Great article today on Aero-News about the staffing crisis at DFW here. http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=3da7fcca-c9ed-4e59-8ca1-ab0ffa7f5246

Best quote: "Have the union's hysterical headlines finally managed to make the FAA sound like the reasonable party in this dispute? One has to ask -- if controllers are really tripping over each other heading for the retirement door as soon as they reach eligibility, why have 23 guys at DFW, who are already eligible for retirement, stuck around?"

[Wingtip Willie]

Rome is burning ......... ah the smell of Napalm in the morning !!!

At my facility the management would love nothing more than for me to put in my paperwork to retire just to get rid of the controllers who are vocal and show distain for management on a daily basis, in my opinion they would rather work short of experienced controllers for the next few years rather than admit that THEY are the problem ... Just give me a contract that my union supports and I might start showing them some respect - emphasis on the word "might".

Wingtip

[iamatool@mica.org]

The results are worse than you listed. FICA and state/local taxes come off the top (from the $20k).

$20k - 25% = $15k (Fed Taxes)

$15k - $1530 = $13470 (FICA)

$13470 - $2000 = $11470 (State/Local Taxes)

$11470 - $3600 = $7870 (Traffic Time)

$7870 - $1000 - $6870 (Fuel/Extras)

Then you get into expenses most wouldn't think about. For instance, there are a lot of 40-somethings who have left with kids who would need babysitters or day care. That'll eat through a load of money, as well.

"Up to $24k" is a joke. I wouldn't waste 30 seconds of my life even thinking about coming back for the FAA's chump change.

[silverskies]

I would hope you veterans wouldn't consider this. This is a bullsh*t offer. Once again the you see nothing in it for developmentals. They truly think that what they are paying us is fair. They truly think that not giving us backpay for the per diem is fair. These things are just fuel to my fire. They are gonna regret turning their backs on the new generation of controllers (those of us who will make it). Exactly 52 weeks after check out I'll be leaving. I'll go DoD, contract, oversees....the opportunites are endless. Its just worth it to stick around. Things aren't changing and I don't think they will ever change. I hear veterans that I work with and really look up to talk about controlling now. The white book won't even be mentioned..they say it just isn't fun anymore. I think its an accumulation of things. The white book being one. And another, just knowing that if it comes down to a pilot deviation or an OE, you know your getting the OE even if it was a pilot deviation. They turn their back on us in every way possible. It doesn't make me angry anymore, it saddens me more than anything. Thank you to all the veterans who we developmentals look up for standing up for us.

[silverskies]

Sorry typo in my comment. Its not worth it to stick around

[goblit]

hey W. I want to help stimulate the economy. Give me my freakin cic pay back!

[Day Tripper]

Most of us realize these points but it is sure nice to see it spelled out in a nice neat package with the always entertaining way only JTB can present it.

Please forward for widest dissemination.

[retired in fl.]

I retired 8/3/07. I work at APF, contract tower. I am taking home more per month, than working at an ATC12. If they offered me $75,000 bonus, I might??? consider.

[Charliefox]

John, THANK GOD YOU POINTED-OUT that taxes will eat away at any bonus pay. It was so great when taxes didn't eat away at CIC pay...yeah those were the days. Be honest here John and don't spout crap intended only to inflame. Hey, do things suck right now...matter of opinion. But cut the bullshit that the only time we would pay taxes to an ever inflated and out of control Government treasury is on incentive pay! Just like the bullshit about all the "group awards" managers received...yeah, I got a "group award" too...when they capped my damn payband. The way to prove the other guy an ass is to do just that...and not give him evidence that you resemble one.

Fight on John, really fight on! Just do it with integrity!

[SOS]

WARNING-
The proposed FAA rehire is a polished TURD

IT IS ALL A SMOKE AND MIRRORS SCAM-I left the FAA in 2004. I work for myself. I keep ALL my money. My customers have two prices. Cash and Check. It took me a few years to readjust to a life of personal control, no stupid FAA managers and long commutes. If I could go back in a time machine I would have quit the FAA many many years before I did. Just like the figures prove, the Government takes your money. It will cost you money to work for the Government. When you include quality of life issues and commutes and stupid pathetic FAA managers IT IS NOT WORTH IT!!

Retire! Start a business and control your life. Screw the FAA. Screw the Federal Government. Screw the IRS.
They had their chance and blew it. Let them eat crow.
I have never been happier in my life. Working for myself
is the best thing I have done in my life. FAA Controllers
and Technicians are very bright people working for a retarded
bunch of losers who rode the short bus and licked the windows.

GET OUT AND NEVER LOOK BACK!! TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. THE FAA could care less if you live or die. F%^K'em
One bit of advice. When you do start your own business be prepared for some long hours the first couple of years. But also be prepared for a satisfaction you can't even imagine until you live it. It is the American dream.

I am very proud of my Government service and the time I spent serving my country. The sad part is in the eyes of FAA management you are like cattle. A resource. No more. No less.

GET OUT WHILE THE GETTING IS GOOD and GOOD LUCK!!! GO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM. Working for the FAA is a NIGHTMARE

[Impacted...]

So Marion sells this steaming pile of shit to the American public about controllers making too much money, procedes to ROB me of my promised salary all in the name of "saving money", but now they magically have plenty of money to throw around at eligible retirees so they'll hang around for another year? I'm speechless...

[ZZ-Retired]

JTB, I predicted this over a year ago when I retired. If we reject this latest bullshit "bonus" and more controllers retire, the FAA will be looking for a backroom deal fast. And if that does not work they might, just might want to sit the fuck down and negotiate a fair and equitable contract. This is where retired people like me can help. DON'T go back. It is a trick ! Remember the reason why we left. We are kicking their ass and they know it. Ask yourself this.....do you trust the FAA ? BINGO........NO DEAL !

[Hampster]

I'll bet that everyone at my facility takes the offer. They are all greedy! The only one's who have retired did so because they were forced to! Now they train the new highers and give them praise when they suck. Soon they will check out and we will be stuck with weaksticks who think they are the best. Who's going to be stuck with the mess? The one's who get nothing out of this mess except some big fat student loan payments. Thanks FAA!

[zack]

What a joke! Unfortunately, many who are eligible to retire now are addicted to the OT, otherwise they would already be gone. Some of the greediest folks I know are still working, they'll probably jump on these too few pennies tossed into the dirt by the FAA...So Sad...The slow-motion implosion of the FAA continues...
Retired 09/05 and Oh So Happy ;-)

[M Blakie]

Hey Hampster,
Same with my tower. Not only will the four that can retire, NOT retire, but two of them just put in for the Sups. job! Yeah, they have worked traffic for years, and can retire, but instead are trying to be a Sup! Oh, and I know at least two of the four are Republicans, which makes for great break room talk.

Silverskies,
Your not alone! I know many new hires who are waiting, just waiting to see what they will do with the pay. Everyone thinks retirements are bad? Wait to see if the new President doesnt give us the old pay scale! LOL

And for you old timers who can retire and dont, FCUK YOU! That "FCUK YOU" is also for those who are ATCers who will vote Republican, not retire when eligible, big on a Sup job, and last but not least, those of you under the old pay scale that complain. STFU!

[ZTLGuy]

I don't know, I think it would be kind of funny to take the offer (if I could). Picture this scenario.....

One year, huh? I guess I would have to take about a month to draw my maps again.

Man, I didn't realize how much my brain had slowed down. 3 months to get all my D sides back (URET is a lot dumber than I remember).

Oops, sorry Mr FLM, the doctor just changed my blood pressure med. I know the routine though. See you in two or three weeks.

Dang, I need new glasses. They are being mailed from China. Can I rip strips until they get here? (For the uninformed, as of this week ZTL is required to staff the Aside position in every area all the time. Nothing like paying a twenty five year CPC the big bucks to rip three SIGMETS an hour and pass them out)

OK, Let's get on with the Rside training again. What do you mean I "violated approach control airspace?" Get me a CA-1.

Let your imagination run wild. This could actually be interesting

[cyberbot]

Hey Hank, Blow Me!!!! I would not accept your blood money no matter what it was. Hope your conscious does not bother you when two planes hit soon. I see a change everyday. These young folks try but they really have no clue as to what they are doing. As long as everything is standard then its cool but as soon as things start going a bit south they are down the toilet.

[MJS]

Should I quit my job? Last year I made 600K - using your logic, I paid $46K FICA - 210K Fed tax (I'm in the 35% bracket), 60K state/local, 73K in mtge interest (i'd have never qualified for the mortgage if I quit), i drive 1.5 hrs per day 200 days times my 'hourly rate of $300/hr - costing me another 108K, spent $3K on gas commuting; OMG --- I JUST WORKED THE ENTIRE YEAR FOR 100K - LESS THAN WHAT AN AIRTRAFFIC CONTROLLER WITH NO EDUCATION MAKES!!!!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE I DON'T MAKE AS MUCH AS THEY DO!!!!!!!!

IF the blog and the responses are representative of the intelligence level of ATC's - I've got to say the FAA is 100% correct in its assertion that you're overpaid. Starting from the top - someone who's base is over 102K pays ZERO FICA on the excess - so reduce that tax to 1.4% (but I used your logic above to prove my point) Very few people (most who do are government workers) get paid to drive to/from work. IF you want to include that time, you'd have to include sleep time (work may make you tired), showering (you can't go to work unkempt), shaving, don't forget your coffee that wakes you up, etc etc. --- Wait a minute, if we're going to introduce sanity and 'reasonableness' lets just throw out the commuting time. Or looking at it from a different perspective, in addition to their prior salary, the government is offering to pay 100% of all commuting costs if they return. Income taxes? Hmmmmmm - when you brag to your friends, family, dates, significant others, etc - do you tell them you make 60K per year, or do you tell them you make 125K and like the rest of the working world, realize that taxes are not a function of the employer and all pay is stated in pre-tax dollars? BUT, if you insist on including the commuting time and taxes - say it like - the FAA is offering retirees paid commuting time (tax free), plus a 3-4 buck an hour raise (again tax free) to come back and train new hires.

I laughed when I read the blog thinking it was a joke. But when I read the posts, I almost cried - you people took it seriously, What does that say about the competence/ intelligence level of the people entrusted to keep our airway's safe? When you have to lie, distort, misrepresent and/or falsify information to make someone like me believe you're 'right', well, it makes me wonder why. I have relatives who are controllers, and although I agree that taking back or reducing benifits that have already been earned via contract is wrong - I also realize that the work of an ATC is about 1/10th as stressful as my work, not 1/2 as demanding,
75% of your time is spent trying to keep from being bored due to over-staffing and the sick leave, vacation time, family leave etc makes the private sector pale by comparison.

I think what defines air traffic controllers best, was your response to being required to at least dress professionally ---you wanted no part of it ----- why? If you don't consider yourselves professionals why would anyone? And YES, dress, attitude, presentation are important. However, having never been part of the professional world, I would expect you to dispute such an assertion (actually, I'd be hurt if any one of you realized it to be correct)

[Charliefox]

I think MJS just hit a three-pointer. Okay, I am not pleased with everything that happened almost 2 yrs ago now, but listen to what you are saying now! Let me get this straight, have every controller that is at the cap and more retire...just to replace them with folks at the bottom of the band. Hey, even if they go back to the old Green days, that will land them at the TOP of the current bands. In the meantime, what does it accomplish for those that are standing 10 feet outside the fence thumbing their nose back at the Tower? If I'm not mistaken, you don't get back-pay on your pension check. CIC is gone...CIP is gone...you have to dress as least as neat as employees at Home Depot...pack you lunch. How much of this did we have coming to us over the years? Really, file grievances because management caught us red-handed taking early goes! Following that kind of logic is what got us here...and why a new breed of employee is replacing each one of us.

Oh, another question... You spout loyalty and all this other crap...how much did we help the auto workers? airline employees? steelworkers? There actually used to be airlines known as Eastern and TWA. Yeah, we helped them too. But now, just to prove our point let's screw all the other AFL/CIO folks with every carrier we can by pulling BS moves behind the scenes like refuse to train, call-in sick, and create backlogs all over the place. Let's face it, the taxpayer pays us just because we look good in headsets...and they will be glad to take it up the rear-end just so we can drive a Lexus in the gate and claim we have a rash on our butt that requires DQ medications. As a Congressman used to say...Scotty, BEAM ME UP!!!

[max]

MJS, I wouldn't quit my job if I was you. I sincerely doubt you will find anybody else to hire a jackass with poor reading comprehension skills for a tenth of that.

Thanks for sharing your keen insights about air traffic controllers, though. The bit about the over-staffing and lack of stress kind of gave away your Village Idiot status, but at least the CF the Amazing Lapdog™ bought into it!

[An Arms of One]

Apparently the last 2 posters believe that dressing snappy should equate to one's worth in the workplace. Maybe that's how it works in the world of a corporate-slut but in the ATC world, I guarantee no pilot cares what I'm wearing when they have an emergency or get on top of clouds with fuel running out.

We can't leave & the public can't visit; its not about looking good. The 'reasonableness' argument is bullshit; its about control. Pure & simple harassment for sport.

That's why we hate our employer and the useless fucks that kiss their ass. Anyone with an IQ above 5 who has read the posts here would have figured that out.

[John Carr]

MJS,

You made 600K last year in that little shithole outside of Wichita, Kansas? They must not pay you for your writing skills, math wizardry or deductive reasoning, because as near as I can tell---they all SUCK.

First, if you made 600K and you paid the same marginal tax rates as everyone else you are dumber than you sound...which, by the way, is plenty. My family made good money last year and paid less than 10% in taxes. It ain't what you make, sonny, it's what you keep that counts. Warren Buffett taught me that one. You must be studying under Minnie Pearl or something, price tag all aflutter on your Kansas straw hat.

Yes, many folks will FICA out over the course of a year, but many will not. New details of the FAAs offer have emerged, and it turns out to be no greater than 15% of your base, to a max of 24,000. So for the person making 100,000, they are starting at fifteen, not even twenty. And the numbers all go down from there. My estimates, it turns out, were all overly generous in the government's favor. I must say....that might be a first.

The reason I use commuting time and costs is simple, MJS. I DON'T COMMUTE. I sit at home, watching Oprah, eating Cheetoes, and wait for saps like you to work your ass off and pay WELL ABOVE what you should in taxes. Then, something entirely magical happens. The government takes that money from YOU, repackages it, and sends it to ME. Please continue to make 600K a year, and oafishly overpay in taxes. Your hard work is funding my golf game and a substantial number of other expensive hobbies.

See, son? Work=pay for commuting costs and time. Home=not.

Your emotional, PMS'd rant about sleep time and showering are just that...sorely lacking in Midol. I did not include them in my calculations because I continue to shower before golf or gambling, and I sleep routinely (and soundly, knowing you are working to pay me.) Sometimes, when I start to toss and turn, I remember that when I die, you are going to continue to work to pay my wife until her death, and then I roll over and go back to slumber.

I do not "brag to friends, family, dates, significant others" about pay. And the fact that you probably do is a very clear indicator of "little wee wee syndrome." You feel like your masculinity is enhanced by telling everyone you make 600K. Well...don't forget to tell them that you are also paying me every year while you're at it.

The rest of your tear-stained comment isn't worth my time. "Relatives who are controllers." Yeah. Right. Managers, maybe, or guys working the ramp at ICT waving orange flashlights, but air traffic controllers? I doubt it.

Your contention that dress, attitude and presentation are important reveals that what you know about air traffic control starts with "d" and ends with "ick." You've never seen one at work in your life, and since the public is prohibited from visiting since 9-11 neither has anybody else. So what does "dress, attitude and presentation" have to do with anything?

Here's my presentation, loser: "Turn left when I tell you to, or brace for impact. Make the cabin announcement, and tell the cocktail waitresses to pass out napkins...the passengers can use them to scribble down a quick will and testiment. Enjoy your five mile fall to earth. Now...about that left turn..." How's that for presentation? And guess what: The pilots always turn when I use that on them. Without fail.

You were fun to play with for a little bit, and a quick search reveals you to have commented over fifty times to this blog using various nicknames and monikers. Sometimes you even make sense, so you should go back on your meds and write again when they kick in.

For somebody making 600K in the hayseeds of Kansas, you sure got a lot of time on your hands.

XXXOOO,

JTB

[ZDC KY]

I lost more than the proposed bonus in one day in my TSP last week...hmmm...would it be worth it to stay for another year? I'm thinking....NO!

[Todd Wilhelm, P50]

JTB,

Nice post, but it wasn't necessary to go to all that work to convince me not to stick around. I have 3 more shifts to go and I have no interest in helping the FAA rebuild. No amount of money will change that.

Perhaps someday the FAA may realize what successful companies know - there is more to life than money. Treating people with respect and dignity engenders employee loyalty. I learned about the Golden Rule when I was a child, a lesson many of those in the upper echelon of the FAA clearly have never learned.

[loser]

JTB,
Way to tell that loser to suck it. Keep up the good work.

[Amazed]

Great job John.

[XXX@WTF]

LOL @ Witchita! I guess I'd be on meds if I lived there too. And a fancy suit, slacks and shirt do not make one professional. We work at 1am locked behind razor wire, who the hell cares what I wear? And while some ATCers have no college degree it takes 3-5 YEARS to certify, tell me what other jobs take that amount of time to train to a professional level....? Ray Kroc and Dave Thomas were self made billionaires, but since they didn't go to college I guess they didn't earn/deserve their pay either did they?

[Day Tripper]

I keep seeing the uneducated label attached to air traffic controllers when comparing them to the rest of the work force. Why would anyone think controllers are uneducated? Many have college degrees at various levels. Many first went into military service and were educated through training classes and on-the-job training. Many who didn't earn a college degree prior to becoming a controller earned one afterwards. What makes someone so sure an individual with a high school diploma and no further education is somehow stupid or ignorant? That sure insults a lot of intelligent hardworking people; all to make a lame and ignorant point there MJS.

[XXX@WTF]

Good points Tripper, I wonder how many in FAA "management" have college degrees? I would venture a guess and say that as a percentage it's no more than the controller workforce. I wonder where their pay cut is?

[JB]

I am a FNG hired within the last year. It would be upsetting to me if a retired individual were to take that supposed bonus money. We have heard time after time the union is going back to the table. We are almost there. Don't give in. The new people like me are the ones that are taking a bit hit. Stick it out!

[froggie]

I don't expect many "takers". Certainly not enough to fix the looming crises. These failed policies sure are entertaining to watch. I just pray no disasters happen.

[oh boy]

MJS,
I have no doubt you are FAA Mgt. disguised as something else. Thanks for caring & come back soon.

[ZZ-Retired]

My guess is that MJS is a ATC wanna be. There is only 1 problem. He probably can't do the job. I wonder how many lives he has in hands on a daily/hourly basis ? 600K ? ya right....you cannot make that much selling vacuum cleaners.
As for the controllers who take this Bullshit bonus and stay and the retired people who return there is a word for you.....
SCAB ! You are doing yourself and all of your co-workers a dis-service by being an FAA PAWN. Grow some balls and do the right thing. You are no better than MJS if you stay or go back.

[myview]

Even if you got all 15% tax free, it still wouldn't be worth it. Nights, weekends, mids, managers, holidays, training, etc. I think most will decline the FAA's too little/too late offer.
I'm still 6 years away, but from where I sit, the rest of my career is really gonna suck. We may have some that will stay, but only for another year or two. Then it will be CTI Cindy or Tommy, who still aren't FPL's after 3 years, working next to Susie and Mack, who got hired after they saw an ad on a bus.
Half of the FPL's at my ATC-10 will be eligible by the end of this year. NO TRAINEE will even be close to checking out. Do the REAL math that counts. There are not gonna be enough controllers.

[sammy]

hey, didn't the blakester claim the nontract was going to save the taxpayers a billion over five years. wondered if she figured in the tens of millions spent on overtime already. man, did she turn out to be a failure or what. and what are they going to do with all those grievances and ulps. man, this agency is screwed. poor hank, that dude needs to get out while the getting is good. this summer is going to be ugly. the liars in the pr office will be racking up a little overtime themselves. wheweee.

[Gabados]

Hey MJS..
"I just worked the entire year for $100k - less than what an air traffic controller makes with no education!!"
That is exactly the same elitist attitude that FAA upper management has towards their "entry level" ATC employees. The same group of people who are pissed that they've missed out on the Corporate CEO bonanza going on in the U.S. right now. So, rather than quit and go work for Haliburton, They have decided to turn this government agency into a business and change the focus from the operation, where the bureaucracy is there to support the operation, to where the focus is on the bureaucracy, where the operation and the air traffic controllers are an annoying distraction to their resume' building, name plate title giving, latter climbing careers.
And as for no education....my education was spending three years on an Aircraft Carrier, doing circles in the northern persion gulf, controlling planes for 10-14 hours on end, with no break, defending your F'in right to get your college education and look down your nose at us ignorant peasants! You son of a bitch!!
And as for the 25% of the time we are doing something that "isn't stressfull!" Try telling that someone who just got done separating planes for three hours through the only gap in a line of thunderstorms that runs from canada to mexico where every plane going east to west and back is trying to get through! Trust me..IT IS!!! I've done it a couple of times this past year!

[JeeMan]

Tools in a toolbox? That's what we can call the FuFA management.

The right people in the right place at the right time? Haven't we heard everything is alright? Haven't we heard NATCA is just crying wolf?

I have almost a decade more to work before I'm eligible but I'll no longer trust the FuFA management team ever again.

And to those that post that are either management types or private business types that don't understand what we do, we'll continue to provide the safest air traffic system in the world regardless of how bad things get.

Why? Because we're proud professionals who can adapt and adjust to changing problems at 500miles an hour with lives at stake. We care about the families on board those planes. Just keep in mind that a rested (not overworked) mind is a productive and safer mind.

We don't get the luxury of spellcheck or rebaselining separation. It happens quickly and we strive to be right ALL the time.

Great post John! Keep up your amazing work!

[as I see it.........]

Well gee.........some very interesting posts along with great dialog. "SOS" echoes that which I have been posting for some time. Unless you get out of your present degrading circumstances, you will never experience the feeling of being a free and independent human capable of following your own dreams and your own schedule.

Like "SOS", I see you every day, rushing down the highway on the road to nowhere. You are so tied up in ATC that you think
it is the most important thing in the world. It may be the most important thing in your own private world, but at the end, 'and so?" I once made the same mistake. I let my job become my life. Bad move. Get up early tomorrow and watch the real sunrise...it's there for all of us`. Take the time.

[any day now]

"We are counting on experienced controllers to show the way to newly hired controllers by example, and with training," Krakowski said.

Hank and Co. When you try to run the FAA like a business, it might be a good idea to not piss off the people that your counting on to rebuild the workforce.

OOPs, to late. Now your going to have to SHOW ME THE MONEY

[as I see it.........]

And if you have a spare minute, click on this or put it in your browser.......

http://susie1114.com/LiveALife.html

[Retired]

"We are counting on experienced controllers to show the way to newly hired controllers by example"

Hank, you really don't want me providing an example to new people. Especially when you hold no power over me. What could you possibly threaten me with to ensure I go along with the culture change?

JEFF

[The artist formerly known as FX]

Hank needs me! Look out,get out the way bitch, get out the way.

What? No contract yet?

No thanks, call me when ya get that and the pay fixed and I may be able to help for a year to get you back on your feet. Remember, I'm signing a contract so we'll have to negotiate that too.

Meanwhile, every nights a friday and every days a Saturday.

[SJS]

The offer's already going DOWN. This was copied from the link on the employee web site,
"These efforts include offering a recruitment bonus of up to $20,000 for terminal and en route new hires who have at least 52 weeks of experience within the last two years as a controller with a CTO or radar certification..."

[Not Amazed at ZFW]

What it really boils down to is that the FAA wants to give eligibles and retirees 25K to stay away from their families for one year. I don't know about y'all, but that is not worth it.

[M Blakie]

MJS,
"You got served by JTB!" LOL

As for your comment on how to dress, FCUK YOU!
"Turn left when I tell you to, or brace for impact." That was great JTB!

Not only does MJS not know "DCIK," he's too busy "SUCKING DCIK" to understand ATC.
PS MJS, your a FCUKING coward!

M Blakie

[deweyscrewumandhowe]

$25,000? A freaking insult. Hank, keep you blood money. Dubya needs it to fund his $180 million dollar per HOUR debacle in Iraq. Hell, I wouldn't stay for $100,000 extra.

I hope the $600,000 idiot doesn't do anything that lives are dependent on. His rant and lack of command of facts bring into question is level of intelligence. $600,000/year? Horsecrap. Unless he happens to be a well-paid male prostitute.

[MJS]

Blakie, your ignorant, uneducated and vulgar response is very insulting ---- Unfortunately, only to the ATCs who would have to admit you are qualified to be one.

JTB - I don't live in Kansas. But I do have a question. How come when standard tax rates are used to make the ATC's point, its a good thing. But when in response, I use the same standard, I'm an idiot? BTW - IF your family made 600K NET INCOME from business activities, they too paid at the 35% income tax bracket - or committed tax fraud (a felony). As a CPA, I'm well informed of tax law and legal loopholes. I assure you that Mr Buffet pays the same rate on his ordinary income as I do. If we want to discuss capital gains, increase in net worth, etc - have the blogger falsify some of that information and I'll address it.

Reading the responses, I'm accused of being a coward, of sucking dick, of looking down my nose at ATC's, of being a liar, of being FAA management, of posting 50 times under different names, of lying, etc etc etc.

If you'll re-read my initial (and only other) post, it asked a very simple question that not a single one of the attempted insults thrown my way addressed. For those that missed it, I'll ask the question again. IF you feel you have valid points, concerns, issues, gripes, etc. then why is it necessary to exaggerate, falsify, lie, mis-inform, insult, call persons such as myself names and all the other BS?

In response to your question JTB, "So what does "dress, attitude and presentation"............It means nothing to me, in fact, I noted earlier I'd be surprised if anyone agreed with that point. However, let me ask again - if the ATC's don't consider and present themselves as professionals, how would any outsider (whether it be the FAA, Congress, the Public, or anyone) make that connection. Maybe come here for the exaggeration and to read how someone who asks a couple of simple questions is deemed a coward, '**** sucker" told **ck YOU!, loser, stupid, etc???

Yes, I do have relatives who are ATCs. Actually was sent this blog by one of them - they're telling me the membership posting here is not representative of ATCs as a whole. God help us all if they're wrong!

To all of you - have a great day, keep the sky's safe - AND, for yourselves - take a professional, intelligent, honest stance - you'll do better in the long-run than you will if you take an absurd position as set forth in this blog - why not just be honest and straightforward?

[John Carr]

MJS,

Of course you don't live in Kansas. It's just the computer you are using that does, and it has sent over fifty responses to various blog topics. My software is blindingly sophisticated, and added to high friends in places I can pretty much tell you where your mailbox is in relation to your car.

You are an idiot because most ATCs do use the standard rate. A wife, a kid, a mortgage, that's about it. You, big man on campus, knocking back over half a million a year---you shouldn't be paying SHIT. And if you are, you ain't much of a CPA. Rental properties, home businesses (John's Underwater Photography lost money for two straight years before shutting their doors. I got a boatload of good gear out of the deal, though. Funny thing....almost the next day, Carr Arial Photography opened for business! Is this a great country, or what?

You said, "If I reread your original post." I would rather do Marion Blakey on the pitcher's mound at Wrigley Field on the Fourth of July and give you thirty minutes to draw a crowd. The only reason your original post is still up is so it can live in Internet infamy as an example of how NOT to discuss something you know little to nothing about.

ATCs don't have to be professional. They possess unique skills. Tom Brady can do things I can't, but I'd like to see his ass pack 14R at O'Hare during the noon balloon. Surgeons are the same way. Many show up in the operating room in pajamas, golf hats, any number of stress relieving devices. Screw professional. You want professional|? Call some flat-dick CPA. But if you are at 30,000 feet, your airplane is on fire, your pilot just got hit by debris and the only person flying is Ted Striker, well, then you probably want one of my guys. And I could give a crap less what they look like, what their attitude is, and how professional they present themselves. All I care about is that they keep you and your petrified buddy-passengers from turning into a thin pink mist.

You make 600 grand...tell you what: Why don't you start your OWN blog, and you can regale the world with your debunking of air traffic myths! With your ATC relatives you will have two readers a day, and you can post comments to each other. That will leave you only 9998 readers a day short of this blog, which you seem to take such umbrage at.

Run along, son. Adults are discussing serious topics here. Head on back to the little Fisher Price table and we'll swing by with a juice box.

XXXOOO,

JT|B

[MJS]

I apologize for my "uneducated" comment - uncalled for, incorrect, and unwarranted.

Last year I negotiated 5 separate union contracts. My company is signatory to more than 100 local, 2 national, and 2 international agreements. I'm a HUGE believer of and supporter of union labor. Of the 5 I negotiated, by far the one that the employees gained the least was a NJ agreement. Their proposal was based on exaggerations, mis-statements, lies, falsifications, etc. We held out on addressing any of them until the 11th hour and addressed them one at a time after all the other points had been agreed to. They had to cave on each and every point as the inconsistencies and errors in their assertions and computations were disclosed to the arbitrator. She had no alternative other than to side with "management". In that area, we pay our supervisors and foreman over scale because it's the right thing to do. But to stay competitive - we pay scale to the workers. Like ATCs, they're not starving, but maybe not making what they should. I wonder if "dress, attitude and presentation" would have made a difference ------------ no I don't, it would have made a huge difference in the eyes of the arbitrator.

[MJS]

JTB - get some new software - this computer, and its operator are hundreds of miles from Kansas. ---- and for those of you keeping track - this is post #4 from MJS.

Let me see if I understand your logic - lose $1 of cash to save .35 cents in tax ---- now there's a plan that admittedly I must admit I never considered. I do suck at the rental game as well - I have two of them and I'll be damned if I'm not renting them for more than the interest, taxes and depreciation. I'm thinking I need a new attorney - what the hell was he thinking when he allowed me to sign those leases. Hell, if he'd just made me reduce the rent to cover my actual cash outlay, I could have been writing off the depreciation. Assuming of course I ignored the passive activity loss rules for deducting rental losses.

Well JT - wouldn't you agree its time we both quit making you look like such a fool?

Somehow I sense you're not done. BUT - Next time I'm in your area, I will buy you a beer.

[max]

Seriously, what is a self-described Uber-CPA with an alleged assload of cash and absolutely zero knowledge about air traffic controllers or their issues doing arguing with an ex-NATCA president?

[John Carr]

MJS,

Like I said...for a big time, union-contract-negotiating, labor-loving CPA you sure have a lot of time on your hands to discuss topics you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT.

Sorry about your rentals and other tax errors. You should get a better CPA! Yours is obviously spending way too much time surfing the net, desperately trying to be relevant somewhere, anywhere.

As far as buying me a beer, save your money on two counts:

1. I only drink with friends, and
2. I don't drink.

Let us all know when you start that blog of yours. We can have a contest to name it. I'll go first:

"Rebel Without A Clue."

XXXOOO,

JTB

[WhereamI]

Well let's just see how good JTB's software is. JTB where in the world am I? It's ok to publish, I've changed my name too.

[John Carr]

With no heavy lifting, between plays in the game I got you narrowed down to East Sandwich or Forestdale, Mass. Congrats to your Pats. And I think you're no longer "soon2be," eh?

XXXOOO,

JTB

[mikey g]

John please please please....... The you doing Marion on the pitcher mound at wrigley field story made me throw up in my mouth again. I can get past you being naked on the mound but marion? That would take years of therapy and with these six day work weeks i'm just way to busy.

[Dietz]

MJS,

Turn left. Stop. Pull hard.
Ahhhhh.
That felt good.

Thanks,

Dietz

[An Army of One]

MUS - I have no idea why you are here, but if you are who you say (which I doubt), here's a news flash:

JTB is perhaps the finest leader to ever represent controllers and he still represents the views of many, who may not be among the 2 controllers you [claim to] know, but are among the dozens of controllers I do know. Seniors controllers are leaving, and many new hires will leave if pay & conditions don't improve. Controllers can't be replaced by just anyone with a pulse & a cheap headset. It takes aptitude, a lot of training, and learned judgement.

If you had access to inside info on the controller BBS, you would hear in detail about the agencies inability to attract & retain quality workers and how they cut corners to give the appearence the crisis is not yet a disaster.
You would also hear about the agencies callous disregard of laws, rules & regulations as they run amuck, harassing workers and union leaders in particuliar. You would then know the level of distain good controllers have for the Bush Administration and Agency that has all but destroyed a proud and vital profession for no reason.

Lacking that, you don't have the credentials to discuss this.

I would leave it at that, but someone should give you -the hint - no one gives a shit how much (or little) you make, and the "level" of someone's education or brand of their outfit doesn't matter here, where you're only as good as your last radio transmission - something you probably can't comprehend.

Get yourself a handfull of warm spit and go rent a movie.

[WhereamI]

Goddamn! Well you can't get any more exact than that. It was spot on. Ok, so who's gonna win the NFC game that is not going into OT?

[WhereamI]

I meant now in OT

[MJS]

Max - in response to your question - letting him make a fool of himself.

JTB - as far as "knowing nothing about the topic" - admittedly I know very little about the "meat" of the disagreement. Exactly why I have not addressed any of the positions. I merely pointed out the flaws, untruths and lack of logic in your opening argument. Again, if you believe you're position is correct, logical, and winnable on its own merits, what is the point/benefit in exaggeration and mis-statement?

For the record - neither I nor my computer is in Kansas, nor have I posted here under any identity other than 'mjs' (an acronym referencing to a particular entity I'm associated with. I have no affiliation with the FAA, nor any axe to grind with controllers. Rather I was referred to this blog, read it, and honestly thought it was an attempt at humor until I read the responses and realized it was intended as serious information.

Back to the "tax issue" - there are indeed 'deductions'. When deductions exceed income (referred to as 'losing money') you don't pay income taxes. My philosophy simply differs from yours - I truly hope that some year I make enough that I owe a million dollars in federal income tax. I've actually prepared a number of returns for people who have written qtrly cks well in excess of that amount. In terms you might be able to understand ---- should an ATC be paid 50K per year so he/she does not pay as much tax, or would it be better to pay that ATC 125K even though he/she will have to pay more taxes?

To the ATCs who read this, please let JTB and myself know which income you'd prefer to be paid. I'll be the first to apologize to JTB if the majority of ATCs would rather be paid less to keep them in a lower tax bracket.

One last thing J - what do you say we find an attorney, close to your residence and each put up say $25,000 for him/her to hold. IF, I can prove I don't live in KS, IF I can prove beyond a reasonable doubt (you seem like the type to come up with a - well you could have left work on a friday night at 6, drove xxxxx hours, crossed the state line before turning around and going home - type argument) that I haven't been in Kansas in 2008, and, IF I can prove that I have relatives who are ATCs (centers, not towers) - I get my money back and yours goes to a cancer research and/or a center assisting families affected by the disease. If I can't prove each FACT (knowing how you dislike facts) you keep all the money is yours.

There is an alternative - admit to your readers that you're "wrong" about the information you've been giving them. Again, I would ask the question --- If you believe I'm as stupid, wrong, illogical, lying, etc etc as you've been stating - why is it necessary to exaggerate about what I've done or said? The answer is obvious. I hope your readers have the sense to sort facts from your exaggerations. My advice (like you'd start taking it now) - be honest with them.

[WhereamI]

never mind. I don't need a computer to tell me. Giants just intercepted.

[deweyscrewumandhowe]

MJS- You absolutely miss the point about all of this. It is NOT ABOUT MONEY.

It is about SAFETY. It is about a presidential administration guided by the American Enterprise Institute, Milton Friedman (yes, I know he is dead) and other like-minded idealogues that are hell-bent on destroying anything that doens't meet their narrowly definition of the "America Way". It is about a very diverse group of individuals that care DEEPLY about their duties as air traffic controllers. Many have Bachelor's degrees, there are a significant number with Master's degrees. Several I know are working on Doctorates. There are published authors, folks with second business. Folks serving in local leadership roles. People that solve the NY Times crossword puzzle during their lunch break. It is about a person like me, with an SAT back in 1974 of 1460, a documented IQ of 148.

It is about these people PISSED off that we are being lied to and are being denigrated by people that got into their positions of power through FAILURE or through political ass-kissing.

We are TIRED of these people driving our aviation system to an inevitable disaster (or in the case of Lexington, have already reached that). We SEE the stupidity of their "business practices" that are in reality extensions of the Bush administration ideaologies, and NOT in anyway efforts to actually successfully manage the world's busiest, safest, and most efficient air traffic system (contributing approximately 13% to the nation's GDP) in the world.

We are SICK of the arrogant and at times inhumane ways that they treat their employees. Most successful businesses these days recognize the importance of investing (and I don't just mean money) in their human capital. THEY DON'T. It appears they use the same philosophy on their employees that they are now using for equipment: No preventative maintenance, work it harder than it is designed, let it BREAK and maybe replace it.

DRESS CODE? Why is this even an issue. Because it is a simple and visible example of their stupidity. One of the shining stars of the FAA was quoted as saying he would rather allow the system to suffer because a controller was being punished for wearing jeans to work. The absurdity is unfathomable.

[max]

MJS, you are half right.

Somebody is making a fool of himself, but it isn't exactly who you had in mind.

The point of this blog entry is that the 15% bump is simply not worth it. If it was only about the money, most of us who are eligible to retire prior to turning 50 would stick around to pad our TSP accounts if nothing else. Instead, we are bailing out on a formerly satisfying career we have enjoyed for over 20 years in *droves*. You have to ask yourself what kind of working conditions would drive a man to turn his nose up at another six years at $145K per, don't you?

PS The computer location argument is just silly, by the way. I am sure your ISP (like AOL) displays the same centralized server location regardless of your computer's internet location. It may be fun for you to obfuscate the argument with that little jab, but it is just making you less credible to many of us who are focusing on our own issues here.

[M Blakie]

MJS,
Do me a favor, from now on, when your sorry ass is in a plane, ask the pilot to tell the ATCer that your MJS, then hopefully one of us will remember and act accordingly. Hell, with all that money you make, you probably own a BZ. "BZ12JS, taxi to runway 10R via Alpha. When you get to the end, dont make the turn, reference you being a faggot!"

As for you not approving of my choice of words, FCKU YOU! You care how we dress? The next time your waiting for a flow time that continues to get extended, think to yourself, "I sure hope those ATCers are dressed business casual." DCIK.

You want to bet JTB 25,000? I have a bet for you. I bet you $25,000 that your SUCKING DCIK somewhere in the US! LOL

MJS,
One last thing. You called me ignorant. Ignorant: Lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified. Your a CPA on an ATC blog, talking about ATC stuff. Who's ignorant? You called me uneducated. Uneducated: Not educated. I have a degree. So twice you tried to insult me, twice you were wrong. So once again, STFU!

M Blakie (Not that one JTB would do on the pitchers mound at Wrigley Field) :)

[mikey g]

I remember reading an article about ten years ago written by a lady that attended MIT and held five or more degrees. She was challenged by some Air Traffic friends who told her she could never be a Controller because even though she was holding well over five degrees she simply did not have the ability to multi task and in her friends opinion lacked commen sense. So off she went for stage one of the hiring process. She was given a testing date apprximatly two months down the road. She went into a Barnes and Nobles purchased the "Air Traffic Controller Apptitude test" and studied in her words "the pages were falling apart". Well she now has a very very different opinion of us "uneducated" Controllers. You see my friends she could not even get past stage one! That's right an MIT graduate with five degrees could not even pass the test that this high school grad Air Force Vet passed with a 92. So mr Tax Man shut the FUCK UP ! Your degree means jack shit! I wouldn't let you rip fucking strips for me.

[mikey g]

P.S. John tell Mr Tax man where I live so he can come visit me I can kick his fucking ass!

[PNSHD]

JTB
Keep doing what you are doing. From someone who worked jets off the PMM4 arrival(you probably don't know the lingo MJS and I'm not gonna tell you)to you at 7 or 10 in trail I appreciate the direct confrontation of the pussies that now run the faa/ato. They aren't going anywhere in the private sector when the new folks take over in Washington. If they had any power, they would just implement any level of pay raise to new folks, old folks, managers, who-the-flock-ever, not come knocking on Pat's door asking "Is this alright? Will you like me?" Powerless, frustrated good old boys that lost a TON of grievances lashing out now to show us JUST WHO IS IN CHARGE!!! If it's OK with you guys...can I go have a beer after work??? Will you please like me???

I hope this MJS guy/female had a good time treading water where he/she doesn't belong. It's not the money, or the swearing, or the put-downs, it's about people that don't understand the situation. 4 of 100 people can do this job for any length of time. We resist the pressures heaped upon us by the folks who don't understand the job, can't do the job, try to re-define the job(that would be re-baselining), call us overpaid crybabies, all because they think they hold some sort of higher ground. Too bad. The best and brightest of this profession are on the boards( another term you probably can't figure out MJS ) but the current higher-ups won't acknowledge that. We solve thousands of problems every day, and now 3 of us are leaving every day. Oh well...

364 to go.

[MJS]

Dewey - I've not said its about the money, nor about the dress code, nor about the way controllers are treated. I simply addressed some questionable math presented in an original blog. That apparently ticked some people off as it generated a tirade of calling me names, a liar, misrepresenting what I said, cussing, etc. Although I had no right to make the statement that ATCs are uneducated, the logic and math I used stating my point was in agreement with that used by JTB to oppose the offer. Prior to your posting, there was not one directed at me (and few others) that set forth any issue other than money, dress code or to call me some name. Apparently to a lot of the visitors to this blog, it is all about the money and the dress code.

As inappropriate (and stupid) as my "un-educated" comment was? Try to convince me that "....or brace for impact" is any less so. Maybe its funny in ATC circles --

However first prize for the 'best comment' is going to have to be voted on: first nomination comes from JTB, "ATCs don't have to be professional" second nomination for whereami's statement "JTB is perhaps the finest leader to ever represent controllers and he still represents the views of many"

You seem reasonable - do you accept JTBs statement that ATCs are not professional? Do you believe that statement represents the opinion of "many"? All I suggested was that if the ATCs believe their concerns about pay, dress, experience, treatment, or whatever is supportable and valid, there would be no reason to try and support it with misinformation or exaggeration. Truth is not the enemy when you're in the right. Obviously there are a number of people here who disagree with me on that point.

Good luck to all of you......................

and YES before the next person feels the need to type it again ---- I'll brace for impact as I've been warned by perhaps the finest leader you've ever had and have been advised that many share his views........it is a good thing I'm not an ATC - statements like that would piss me off a lot more than any contract issue - my God!!! there are children, women, moms, dads, infants, priests, ministers, rabbis, pilots, friends, families etc on planes ---- and you want to joke about crashing them if you don't get your way. personally, if you feel that's an option, wouldn't it be better for you to retire and find something else to do? Can you imagine the fall out if God Forbid there was an accident prior to the settlement of your contract dispute and you saw these quotes posted on the front page of the NY Times?

Now, before the onslaught of people needing to tell me how stupid I am if I took these comments seriously you should know ------ I DID NOT TAKE THEM AS SERIOUSLY------- I'M ONLY POINTING OUT HOW INAPPROPRIATE AND STUPID THE COMMENTS WERE!!
If you disagree - please cut them out and post them above your radar screens and in the lunch room and see how many people agree/disagree with me ---- who knows, maybe I'll be proven wrong.

Sorry JTB - BUT, as much fun as this has been, this is my last post ---- unless of course you decide to contribute $25K to cancer research for which I would return (if interested, please post within 24 hours so I'll be sure to see it - thanks)

[max]

Hey, if you can't laugh at the thin pink mist generated by a terrain proximity event, what CAN you laugh about?

[M Blakie]

"I'll brace for impact" MJS wrote, LOL Damn right you will! Do what we say, or "brace for impact." Its as simple as being a CPA.

As for the "pink mist" comment, hilarious. I would also like all Main Bangers to know that MJS did not respond to my last comment. And since I'm pretty sure it would have been an ignorant one, I'll go ahead and reply.

FCKU YOU MJS! "Dont turn the corner at the end, reference you being a faggot!"

M Blakie

[Day Tripper]

Somehow I feel we haven't heard the last from this narcissist.

[a hamster]

MJS,

While it may have been your last post, I doubt it was your last veiwing. You totally missed the target. It is NOT about the money (although ALL other GOV employees got a raise this year), It is NOT about the dress code (although AF walks around the same building in jeans, as does the secretary), it IS about RESPECT! The idiots running the FAA from the top to at least the OMS HATE us. For one simple reason. We can do a job 96% of the people in the WORLD cant. They couldn't, and I doubt you could. Yes, I have a degree. Yes I have a family. I will retire at 48. There are many jobs out there that will supplement my income. Do a little digging and look for how many COUNTRIES are looking to hire AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS (from any country)! How many are looking to hire non-native CPA's, lawyers, bus drivers, cooks, etc.

PS this post had no cuss words. Does that make me a good person?

Just another "tool" in the f'naa's "toolkit"! Even when they try, they take the opportunity to slam us!

[wtf]

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/01/20/planes.collide/?iref=mpstoryview

We're too late.

[Day Tripper]

By the way MJS, your original post wasn't meant to be funny or simply point out questionable math. It was meant to be insulting and rode the wave of your ignorant beliefs and biases.

You went out for a Sunday stroll in the swamp in your shorts and sandals and stepped on a rattle snake nest. You got what you deserved. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

[Lockheed SUX!!!]

I know the FAA reads this...

You want to solve part of the staffing crisis, and avoid lawsuits up the yazoo?

DO THE RIGHT THING (FOR A CHANGE) FOR THE HUNDREDS OF AFSS EMPLOYEES THAT YOU FIRED, THE ONES THAT HAD 17, 18, 19 OR MORE YEARS IN, AND YOU JUST FIRED THEM SO LOCKHEED WOULD HAVE A WORKFORCE.

DO THE RIGHT THING, AND HIRE THESE PEOPLE BACK, AND SAVE THEIR RETIREMENTS, AND THEIR FAMILIES FUTURES. THESE ARE PROVEN PUBLIC SERVANTS, THAT YOU JUST SCREWED WORSE THAN ANYONE (OK, EXCEPT THE GIRL THAT KILLED HERSELF MAYBE). THESE PEOPLE KNOW THE NAS, AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH AVIATION AND PHRASEOLOGY.

BRING THEM BACK, AND PAY THEM RIGHT, NOT AT THE NEW RAPESCALE THAT PAYS THE NEW GUYS 30% LESS THAN OTHERS.

DO THE RIGHT THING. FOR ONE FRICKEN TIME, DO THE RIGHT THING.