For Managers And Supervisors Only

The last time I posted some top secret info the people were all over me like Tom Brady on a supermodel.  Never mind that it turned out that I was right, and my sharing of information with the owners and operators of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association did nothing more than let the working class in on a fairly worthless series of talks.  You would have thought I was giving nuclear codes to Bin Laden for all the hate and discontent I stirred up.

Well---I need that kind of grief like I need a third nut, so if you are NOT a manager or supervisor, please ring off now and go back to your NATCA newsletter or BBS postings or breakroom lawyering.  For the FAAMA clones, read on.  You probably already know this anyway, seeing as it was one of you who gave it to me:

Download BribeMoney.pdf 

It's funny how the FAA gives NATCA until March 1 to respond.  He-llo!  I hope NATCA will look at the Congressional calendar carefully when weighing the wisdom of waiting that long to dismiss this bribe.  The longer the union waits, the longer the agency gets to bleat, "we're working with the controllers on resolving our dispute, please, Mr. Congresscritter, don't do anything legislatively that might upset the balance."

You will notice that this offer does not include contract talks to resolve the remaining issues or a ratification vote of the membership.  Both of these two things are necessary in order to conclude the contract talks and resolve the "controller contract dispute" that the agency is briefing you managers and supervisors about.

If you get a minute, share some of this data with your air traffic controller employees.  They will be grateful for the information, and you will have done something positive to start the New Year. 

Comments

[Persona non grata @ MCO]

I think they are starting to feel that they might lose more if they don't get NATCA to buy off on a lesser deal soon. Keep up the pressure.

[On Strike]

I hope NATCA rejects this offer. NATCA and the FAA NEED A CONTRACT. Not a bunch of imposed work rules with a few settlement riders....Grow some nads Pat, Paul and NEB. Your moment of truth awaits!

[Blue Eyed Buddhist]

I think we should accept their offer contingent on two simple provisions.

First, that it- along with the entire White Book- go to the BU for a ratification vote. (Hard numbers needed on the salary changes, of course.)

And second, that if it's rejected, they go back to the table... and we go back to the Green Book.

After all, implicit in the agency making this offer is the notion that the negotiations aren't really complete. If they're not complete, then we're still under the Green Book, right?

Thanks for posting, John. Oh, and the last part refers to four other initiatives, but only lists three- got the fourth one hiding around there somewhere? I'm betting on college loan payoffs, myself.

[Dropkick]

To the FAA...

Nuts!!!!

[MerlinMIne]

Near as I can tell that memo says a whole lot of nothing.

[WTF, Over?]

Booby,

Kiss My Ass.

Signed,

An Unsatisfied Worker

[pissed]

How about giving those of us hired before the imposed work rules the pay raises we are owed.

[CarrFan]

WTF? The FAA has played this perfectly. They pinky promise with the Union to not tell anyone about the ongoing super-secret-squirrel meeting details, then they blast this out to the entire management team, I presume, and they are now sharing this with the workforce from sea-to-shining-sea. It's all over the wire this morning, and thus far, NATCA1 hasn't said a peep.

Guess what that does? Classic divide and conquer techniques. I can hear it now...

Mini-ache: "Here's the deal boys. We throw that pesky little Union a carrot, tell them to keep a lid on it, and we'll do the same. Then, we slip this into an email and blast it to all 500 facilities. You see? Then, we have that leaked to the workforce and when they start hearing stuff from us first, instead of those knucklehead Union thugs, well, guess what happens? You guessed it boys and girls. The controllers will turn on their Union quicker than Michael Vick's buddies. They'll demand WTF!! And we'll have all sorts of hate and discontent brewing, only this time, it won't be against us. This will work like magic! Just wait and see boys, just wait and see".
"And then, we'll get that new softy president over there to buy off on this without a ratification vote. Oh yeah, baby, that'll blow the friggin lid off the Krasner Building when that happens!!!"
"I don't think he'll buy it, do you Booby? Surely he will see thru this and realize that this will seal his fate of being a one-term wonder, surely he will see that".

[ZZ-Retired]

The system is on the verge of totally collapsing and they know it. Do NOT settle for anything but returning to the Green Book and then a negotiated contract. For those of you CSRS controllers who can retire ,Jan 3rd is the best day to do it.
The water is just fine over here.

[M Blakey]

"FCUK THAT! I'll go ahead and say I'm speaking for the majority of the 1800 new hires of last year, FCUK THAT! Do you know how many of them are waiting to just get out CTO's before they say, FCUK THAT to the FAA? Do you know how many more are waiting for a new President to see if they get a new contract, and if they don’t, then they will say FCUK THAT?"

M Blakie

Man, that Blakie knows his/her stuff! If they think retirements are bad, wait until they don’t fix the pay... LOL

[MJK]

Hey M Blankey,

When you mention "waiting for a new President", did you mean U.S or NATCA?

[Ethan Piche']

Hey carrfan...get a grip, the faa aint that smart. I am sure our leadership will turn this "offer" down. Like JTB said it doesnt address squat. I too thought that they are trying to make us look like shit but in essence I think this will backfire on them. We will say to Congress...If it was all about money we would take this deal and run..what we need mr congressdude is to go back to the table....

[Martinlady]

Can't put my initial reaction to such nonsense in print.

But I will say this...Green book, make everyone whole - CIC, CIP, per diem, base pay, holiday pay, etc. - , resume REAL negotiations, send the "contract" to the membership for ratification and do it the RIGHT way.

Isn't that one of the Agency's mottos? "We do the right thing even when no one is looking." Time for them to put up or shut up.

The money they're offering the veteran controllers to roll over and accept a non-ratified contract is an insult and the money they're not giving the new hires to train to do the same job is just as much as an insult.

Time to go file some more "forced off holiday/in lieu of grievances"...you know we get so much more reduced traffic levels around Martin Luther King Day that there's a reason to not pay and/or train our workforce. (For those management types reading, that is called sarcasm.)

The Agency's stomped on us (in many cases with glee and outright maliciousness) and now they're pretending to throw us a bone in the hopes that we're stupid enough to say "well, it's more than they WERE going to give us" and think they're just a peachy employer after 485 days of working under their unilaterally imposed work rules, reduced staffing, forced overtime, cuts in pay, and lousy work environments.

My vote is "Hello!?! Hell, no!!!."

[Just a Cracker]

My only question is why is Mr. Carr breaking this news?
Where the fcuk is Forrey? Maybe he's jacking off on one of the bridges he built.
Can I send my dues money to Carr? He's the only one giving me any information. Not counting Mr. Forrey's weakly updates that are about as useful to read as the Gelman's updates.

[CarrFan]

Ethan,

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. The braintrust behind their warroom are alot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. Evil, yes, stupid, not hardly. They've been one step ahead of us for quite some time now. Now, as you branch out into the rank and file management types, well, your thoughts are right on. But, the king pin behind this (Miniace) has made a career out of busting Unions. Do your homework. Google him one of these days. It's all right there. You don't think they picked up this hired gun to make nice with us do you?
The key to victory for us is to stay the course. The pressure has to be enormous at this point. The tread has wore down to the nubs on their monster truck and they are about to sink. And, the cool part is, they know it.

[bjm]

My vote is Hell F...... No Back to the table so we can vote to ratify or not.

[GoingGoingGone]

Not much there as I read it. If anything it appears like a WEAK attempt to "dangle a carrot" in the hope that a few of those getting to retire may hang on through the summer. More lies from the agency of liars!

[Already Biased]

You're probably thinking, "Wow what a great deal! I'd be crazy not to take that"...but wait there's more! If you accept it now we'll give you an extra 5 percent increase in pay while training a new hire...

Sorry trying to pretend this is an infomercial from the FAA. I think this is actually worse the "15%" they offered before. This is just a slip of paper for stoogell to wave in front of the Senate so he can say, "see, I'm trying to correct the labor problems but the big bad union won't work with me."

[Already Biased]

Looks like Pat is about to tell them to stick their offer where it hurts.

Sisters and brothers...

Last week, in what appears to be a last ditch effort to discourage retirement eligible CPC's from leaving the FAA and new hires from resigning, the Agency offered NATCA a settlement to resolve our outstanding ULP's and grievances associated with the imposed work and pay rules. I will generalize the provisions of their offer in this update, but will not offer NATCA's response until we have completely analyzed the contents, and reported our findings to our friends on the Hill.

It is important to note the timing of the FAA's offer... the deadline to accept (March 1, 2008) is parallel to the current extension of the FAA's authorization, and Sturgell has no momentum in the Confirmation process. These two facts clearly indicate an FAA strategy to show Congress that Sturgell is trying to work with NATCA and therefore, no fix to the imposed work and pay rules is needed in FAA Reauthorization, and second, convince legislators that he should be confirmed as the next Administrator because of his willingness to work with NATCA.

I have also been notified that the FAA leadership has decided to brief their management team of their offer. It is completely inappropriate for either party to publicize a settlement offer until the receiving party has had an opportunity to respond; that is unless there are ulterior motives, which there clearly are. I view this action as a blatant attempt to divide our membership and belittle our leadership, which are classic Union-busting techniques. The FAA "brain trust" believes they can obfuscate the real problems in the system - lack of safety and decrease in efficiency - by pushing the Union leadership into a public dog fight. This will not happen...

I think it's clear now that the Agency knows they have a serious staffing problem that's getting worse. Unfortunately, their continued attempts at band-aid fixes to the problems created by their misguided unilateral implementation of work and pay rules will fail until fair and proper negotiations take place between the parties. These so called "remedies" fall short of correcting the injustice levied upon thousands of dedicated professionals and the flying public. This spring and summer travel season will undoubtedly be the worst on record for delays and errors, so we will continue to push Congress towards an FAA Reauthorization Bill that corrects the disastrous direction the current FAA leadership has set by reversing the IWR’s and putting us back at the table.

The NEB certainly has an opinion on how to proceed based on our initial take of the offer, but any official response will be forthcoming at a later date. Here's what the FAA offered:

1) The agency offers to freeze CIP at 80% while the Union considers the FAA's offer until March 1, 2008. They will not commit to lowering management CIP at these same facilities. After this period, the CIP eligibility will be administered in accordance with the IWR’s.

2) The agency will increase the AG pay band by 5%, and a proportional amount to developmental pay bands D1, D2, and D3. In simple terms, the agency asks us to agree to a 25% reduction in the developmental pay as opposed to a 30% reduction; there is no corresponding increase to the top of the CPC pay bands.

3) The agency will pay OJTI's a 15% differential (as opposed to the current 10%) for training the myriads of developmental controllers entering the system.

4) The agency offers a change for facility downgrade pay. For downgrades as a result of agency action (consolidation, collocation), pay shall be set in accordance with HRPM Core Comp-2.3c, Pay Retention.

For facilities that are downgraded due to lower traffic counts, CPC's will maintain their current pay for 2-years, all others - CPCIT's, TMCIT's, and TMSIT's will progress in pay under the new pay bands.

On the 2-year anniversary, all employees above the maximum of the new pay band (96% of current work force) will have their base pay reduced by 4% or to the top of the band maximum of the new band. For multiple downgrades, an additional 4% decrease in base or top of band maximum will continue.

5) The agency offers to employees over the imposed pay band maximum a 1% increase to base pay in March 2008, a 2% increase in January 2009, and a 1% increase in January 2010; the remaining OSI/SCI employees are eligible to receive (if any at all) will be paid in lump sum.

For employees eligible to retire, whose base pay is above the maximum of the imposed pay bands shall receive an additional 1% base pay increase in March 2008, and in January 2009 and 2010.

6) The agency requires that the Union withdraw all ULP's grievances, negotiability appeals and law suits if we agree to their offer.

As you can imagine, the FAA's offer stirs up very strong emotions for all of us who have been dealing with the fall out of their ill conceived policies and direction over the past 15 months. This "offer" represents the second attempt by the FAA to settle our disputes, but once again, it appears that the FAA is unwilling to address the real problem - we lack an agreed upon and ratified contract. This latest offer is regressive from the first offer back in June 2007. Once we have fully analyzed their offer, we will promptly notify the membership and the FAA of our response.

In solidarity,

Patrick Forrey

[Wingtip Willie]

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning --- Faa smell is starting to burn brighter and brighter - stay the course everyone !!! Oh yea , where the hell is our supreme leader Pat in all this ..... John Carr for President . NOW !!!

[bjm]

Im glad I can just react to this as I feel instead of trying to play the game Forrey is in store for. I truly feel sorry for whoever is at the top....but thats what we pay you the bucks for. Do the right thing say NO.

[bjm]

S... I violated my own rule, "Dont ever say FEEL or another variation of said word more than once in a sentence." I APOLOGIZE.

[D]

They might as well make the deadline January 2nd, 2008. It should take about that long for Forrey to tell them to go smell themselves. NOTHING agreed to without going back to the table, Period.

[ATC]

No Thanks.

[We have lost this battle]

In my opinion, it is highly unlikely we will ever get the green book back. Maybe, when the white book expires we can renegotiate something better than we have now. Since 9/3/06 the FAA has had us by the balls and there are no signs that they will release their firm grip anytime soon. I say we take the offer get the tiny raises over the next couple years and come up with a strategy for the next contract negotiation.

[Radarhog]

Tell the FAA the only contract we have is the Green Book. We controllers don't want a piecemeal contract. We have waited nearly a year and a half, what's the hurry now? The FAA is starting to see the negative effects of Ms(I hate controllers) Blakey and Russ(I got my bonus)Chew. They were without a doubt the most moronic leaders in the history of the FAA. Stay the course and get us a real contract.................

[bjm]

Posted by: We have lost this battle |

You obviously thru in the towel long ago. Have a spine and dont lay down for this cheesy little crumb they are offering under durress. Vote NO,

[bobcat]

ojti premium increase to 15%. hahahahahahhaha

[Jim]

Much of what has been leaked and subsequently released has transpired over the past week. Pat and the National Executive Board were smart to work through a response without simply reacting in the knee-jerk way of our employer.

John has many friends from his days as president (and I'm sure from even before he was president) and I believe it is not fair to compare what he is doing to what Pat is doing. Pat is president of NATCA and the comparisons can be made when his term is up. In the meantime Pat is in a very difficult position, a position that he was aware of when he accepted the job.

We will persevere.

Jim

[We have lost this battle]

To: bjm

I am not spineless I am a realist. I would rather take this "little crumb" than go through 3 1/2 more years of no raises until the next contract is negotiated. NATCA is powerless because we do not have the ability to strike and the FAA knows it. The green book was a fluke and deep down in your heart you know it. We will NEVER get a contract as good as the green book again. It is about time you and the new hires realize this and start planning your financial futures accordingly.

[bjm]

I am not spineless I am a realist. I would rather take this "little crumb" than go through 3 1/2 more years of no raises until the next contract is negotiated. NATCA is powerless because we do not have the ability to strike and the FAA knows it. The green book was a fluke and deep down in your heart you know it. We will NEVER get a contract as good as the green book again. It is about time you and the new hires realize this and start planning your financial futures accordingly.

Posted by: We have lost this battle | January 01, 2008 at 07:05 PM

First off I am NOT New, I have 23+ counting my Dads service we have 53 yrs in the FAA and lived thru the strike. You said NEVER and I have to disagree. You can clam up, stick your head in the sand but we will move forward. Saying NO to this proposal is the right thing. (im sorry bout your extra 5% training pay) As far as the base pay B.S. raise they can stick it up their collective A.. You are gone to the other side. Bid a sup job and get off my screen!!!!!!!!

[John Carr]

The very best part of this is the admission by Sturgell that Blakey, Miniace and the entire collection of slack-jawed FAA Contract Renegers were wrong.

WRONG.

Fatally, morally, fundamentally WRONG.

As authored by Bobert Sturgell, furiously bailing water on the Titanic with his teaspoon.

I, on the other hand, am safe on the California, having swum over myself. The view of the flares is quite entertaining. I must go tell the captain that they are simply a celebration by a passing vessel...

JTB

[Hired b4 da 3rd]

I agree that the offer is B.S. however, I'm wondering about us hired before 9-3-06. I didn't see anything about us in the offer. Was there anything in the offer about us? Did we even come up in the conversation??

"The agency will increase the AG pay band by 5%, and a proportional amount to developmental pay bands D1, D2, and D3. In simple terms, the agency asks us to agree to a 25% reduction in the developmental pay as opposed to a 30% reduction; there is no corresponding increase to the top of the CPC pay bands." -This helps the real new hires!!

" The agency offers to employees over the imposed pay band maximum a 1% increase to base pay in March 2008, a 2% increase in January 2009, and a 1% increase in January 2010; the remaining OSI/SCI employees are eligible to receive (if any at all) will be paid in lump sum." -This helps people checked out before Sept. 3rd

I was hired Sept 03 checked out Oct 06 where's my help!!!

[bjm]

To HIRED BY DA 3rd: You have come up in every conversation to date. This contract was hinged on people in your circumstance. They wanted B-Scale and the got it. This fight has been and continues to be about that. Did you read the veterans above turning down MONEY??? They could easily sell you down the river but they/I am NOT. Stay the course. Say NO to this Garbage Proposal.

[Fool me Twice....]

Who cares what they offer!! Cant go back in time and fix this. Is Natca going to be fooled again??? AF/PASS warned us once.........Does NATCA need another clue?? The offer seemed to offer child care for those under 75k. Too little and much too late. Dont care about the $$$ just treat us like.......Well the keepers of the NAS!!!!!!!!!!

[On Strike]

To all you morons out there that want to take this offer as is then please by all means take that supe job and do us all a favor. For the rest, flood Forrey's email and voice mail and tell him to tell the FAA go screw them selves!

[JMarinitti]

We will never settle for the agency's crumbs. John said it when he was president and Pat echoed it when he took over. As stated earlier we could have accepted a B-scale, but that would have fractured our organization. The FAA imposed their work rules on us because they did not have the honor nor the integrity to complete negotiations. The facts speak for themselves.

The Green Book was accomplished through hard work and was far from a fluke. I'm sure those that negotiated it would agree. Instead of bending over try standing tall and having some pride.

Jim

[Elaine - One of the 5%]

As pithily as I can:

NATCA doesn't "settle." NATCA _negotiates._

[Aluminum showers]

Offer?

It smells like dog crap
It looks like dog crap
It feels like dog crap.

Nope. Doesn't restore our youth to their proper role.

Reject it outright. Now.

[as I see it]

I hope this is appropriate for this date and time, yet I have a newsflash:

YESTERDAY IS GONE

You will never see it again. Live for today and work for your future.

[Bite Me]

Settle for nothing short of full restoration of pay and benefits for all.

Otherwise, sit back and watch it all implode.

Controllers retiring. Developmentals tired of waiting for something to improve leaving faster than coming. This FAA disaster is in full motion. Let Rome burn!

[bjm]

To "as i see it" Go run with the sup's of tomorrow. You dont seem to get it, we dont really have a dog in this fight. See we can and are leaving. We would like to see the FAA understand what a mess they made but it really doesnt hurt us $$$$$ wise. Its about doing the right thing. History will show NATCA was right!!!! I Truly Dont Care If You or Anyone Else Classifies It As A Loss. I will go into retirement knowing I did the right thing.

[GoingGoingGone]

They want us to accept crumbs while they get the cake and frosting. JTB exposed their bonuses for last year on a previous blog. They kept CIP for management yet cut it for controllers. They raised their pay band for 2007 and have all but froze the veterans pay and screwed over the newbies. They force the lowest paid off on holidays yet while they are tripping over each other at the watch desk. They cut our staffing yet keep a six-to-one mangement to controller ratio. They want us to accept 15% for training yet if you have an OE or OD you loose your OSI for the year. To Mr. Bobby Sturgell, PISS OFF, I believe it was blakey that said the new workforce would be more savey or technologically capable or some crap like that. But you idiots forgot that they are very educated and capable to do other jobs for the same money or more than the CRAPPY pay that you imposed on them. Now the veterans and the newbies are leaving and you IDIOTS can't stop the exodus. REAL GOOD JOB FAA DUMMIES!!! Why don't you go back to St. Louis and stay there. We will move the planes without you!

[Not even close..]

…I am sure management will share the information with their employees. I came in to work last Sunday and observed the OM had his comp. on TMB. I mentioned that I did not know he was a bang fan and continued to sign in. Another sup had several controllers around the comp looking at all the bonuses given to the various management officials throughout the agency and our facility, including his wife.

I have always read you stuff and should not be surprised by the number of management that read it as well. I’ve heard rumors management at our facility, is trying to find a way to pay our developmental’s CPC pay on completion of a “wall” because some have already quit for overseas jobs and every other one is considering it.

From the above post it seems most people see this offer for what it is. Good luck to us all.

[GoingGoingGone]

To "as I see it". Controllers understand that "Yesterday Is Gone" that is why they are leaving at 47, 48,..50 or ASAP. They are still young and some are going into full blown retirement, some are staring new careers, some are going back to school. But they are leaving and taking their knowledge and experience with them. Something the FAA will not get back for decades. All that will be left is a short-staffed, newbie(to the new controllers don't take that wrong we were all new at one time) workforce that will not stick around for twenty five or thirty years. They will be looking for other opportunities with companies that will respect them and compensate them fairly. Why would they stick around knowing they work for an agency that has proven their disdain for them and the work they do? Why would they risk becoming a pawn for the agency like the FSS folks and ending up without a retirement? You are right when you say "Yesterday is gone" and it appears so is the controller workforce.

[ImpeachForrey]

.

If Forrey caves, then a vote of no confidence is in order.

Carr gets reinstated.

.

[bjm]

To "GoingGoingGone" I wrote JTB the other day, I voted for him then and Id vote for him today. Thats two if you are still in.

[justjeff]

For all you Forrey haters....He's not selling you out. During JTB's tenure, John did not make public negotiation positions while they were on going. No one does. It doesn't matter who was in charge of NATCA or at the table for NATCA. The FAA was not there to negotiate. lThere's nothing in this offer worth pissing on.
I plan on doing my part to help by retiring tomorrow and joining JTB on the beach. Their extra 1% a year for the next 3 years makes me snort.

[Clark W. Griswald]

Why all the screaming and shouting? Everyone take a deeeep breath. Let it out,.. slowwwwly. There. Now, It's fairly obvious that NATCA is gaining the upper hand in this battle. There is no need to get all worked up, and start making assumptions about what the NEB is going to do or not do. They will simply tell the nice people that made this generous offer that we duely appreciate their efforts and concerns, but regretfully we will have to decline said offer. While we are eager to entertain further offers, we will not be making so much as a counter-offer at this juncture due to the fact that the FAA is a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit that they are. Hallelujah. Holy shit. Where's the Tylenol? "

Respectfully;

[On Strike]

I'd rather snort cocaine off a stripers arse but thats not important right now. Congrats on the retirement! Life is a hell of a lot better outside this efed up agency.

[Day Tripper]

All Is Lost. This does nothing to stop the crisis that the F'nAA has created. There is no incentive to stay for eligible retirees. There is no incentive to revise a caring attitude for this this agency, this career. The F'nAA has no right to throw something like this our way and say, “sign it.” This is serious business boys, make a request to return to the bargaining table and reinstate the original contract. You have destroyed the greatest ATC system in the world and this is your attempt at a fix? All Is Lost America, All Is Lost.

[M Blakey]

Hey MJK,
I was talking about US President. LOL Thans for asking.

Here are some quesitons I need answers to.

Can Forrey vote on anything without asking us first? Do we all get to vote, then he goes with the majority? How does that work?

Even though JTB is retired, can we vote for him?

M Blakie

[Guy Fox]

This latest slap in the face merely pours salt in the wounds we have suffered. Those wounds will never heal without a ratified contract. I will sail away from this sinking ship tomorrow at the young age of 47 along with hundreds of my brothers and sisters in an ultimate statement of solidarity. We will look back only with hate and disgust, loathing the Agency we left behind.

[AnotherCog]

What has NATCA got to do with rebaselining the "white book"

Want to raise OJTI Pay, freeze CIP, increase paybands? Just Do It. If your business plan needs to be tweaked, then tweak it. Why involve NATCA now and pretend to "bargain".

[John Carr]

Great comments so far, keep 'em coming.

And keep the faith. The union is winning.

JTB

[jasmine]

What kind of offer do you expect from " the worst employer in the history of civilization"

[Level7grunt]

The FAA is showing its desperation. Let them suffer through the Congressional hearings and do NOT accept these crumbs they offer. The 1% raise above the band does not equal the 1000 hours of CIC time each FPL works at our facility a year due to a lack of qualified supes. We took a 4000-5000 pay cut and offer us 900.00! Very nice. Our developmentals live in cold apartments because they can't afford the fuel oil up here in New England on their ridiculous pay. The controllers of this country deserve a negotiated contract and not the amateur hour attempt by FAA management.

[iamatool@mica.org]

FAA Offers Controller More Money, Says Carr

By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief

Former National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) President John Carr says on his web site that the FAA recently made an offer to the union to resolve issues resulting from the contract it imposed in 2006. The jargon used in the memo (PDF) Carr says he obtained from someone in senior management is difficult to decipher but it appears to offer increased pay and incentives for some controllers. NATCA says it will issue a statement today and the FAA would say only that discussions have been ongoing since last spring.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebbiz/news/BizAv_FAA_NATCA_MoreMoneyForControllers_ContractNegotiations_196869-1.html

[U B Kiddin' Me]

So... now the agency is resorting to "negotiation by memo?" They're saying, "here's the offer, take it or leave it?" Now it's, "we'll decide what changes to the White Book will be made without negotiation?"

They can't even violate federal labor law without mucking it up by putting their malfeasance in writing for all the world to see. If this were a CSI episode, it'd be five minutes long including commercials, because they just left the equivalent of their business card, checkbook, and drivers license at the scene of the crime.

[Reality_bites]

Why cant the union take this offer as a first step in negotiations? I dont think it has to be all or nothing. The union can take this offer and still refuse to drop ALL of the grievances which appears to be a thorn to management. NATCA should MAKE A COUNTER OFFER which makes a timetable for a negotiated contract, and anything beyond that timetable (3-4 months) go to BINDING ARBITRATION (which is the most we will get from Congress).

[On Strike]

These Einstein's ran airlines into the ground. I do not expect anything different to happen with the FAA with these clowns who think they know how to run a business let alone a federal agency. There are people who claim to be in charge at the FAA that have no right to be in charge of a kindergarten cookie party. They are the way they are because they do not know any better and they do not care to change their ways. They are idiots according to the dictionary;

"Idiot" was originally created to refer to "layman, person lacking professional skill", "A person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning".

Their future is so bright they have to wear shades.

[Good Start]

If the FAA really believes their offer will fix staffing problems, then let them implement it themselves. They don't need NATCA's approval to pay us more money. In fact, I think NATCA should ask for a 20% pay cut for all those eligible to retire that don't. See where the FAA runs with that one.

[zz]

Anyone else notice that contingent with the offer was a requirement to drop ALL ULP's, grievances, etc...I can smell their desperation from my retirement...wait, maybe thats my toast burning. ;-)

[nutts]

you know i think tide is really starting to turn, 2008 should be a very intresting year,id love to be there when Pat shows bobby his brown eye.

[rc]

My vote is for JTB for president.

[Fool me Twice....]

Pooooooff.....Its over and back to the green book. Now What?? I can go back to work if we made Erasure part II!!! F..... NO. Retire and quit!!!

[On Strike]

Why would anyone in their right mind want to come back from retirement to work for the FAA again? You have to be a moron to want to do that.

[Bite Me]

Let Stoogell and Congress fiddle while Rome burns.

We accept nothing short of full restoration of pay and benefits!

[Joe Blow]

I would like think if NATCA ever again has the ability to negotiate a new contract,that it(contract) would include fair severance package in the event of contracting out or furloughs.

After what happened to FSS, maybe 1.7 per year retirement + 10,000 per year worked and some health care package.

[Ben Dover]

Tough position for the FAA. Not like they don't deserve it.

Their Controller Staffing Plan is a colossal failure; and they know it.

NATCA has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

[Cant get worse]

It cant get worse. Only a full contracting out could impact things. Then what............ Everyone with 20 years quits and or retires. The rest scramble and leave. We have nothing but time on our side. Sorry for the 4% at the bottom; But a rising tide will eventually lift all boats.

[I <3 the FAA]

@Joe Blow:

You mean, a severance package like the kind you'd find in a contract?

Forget it. If it comes time to screw us again, the FAA will wait for the lawsuits to make them pay out what is owed, knowing that they will cause us a lot more misery than we could ever cause them.

[M Blakie]

FCUK THAT! Did I already say that?

M Blakie

[Ciao]

Almost sorry I jumped ship a few weeks ago....N O T ! ! ! the clock is ticking and tomorrow will tell the tale...January 3rd will be remembered like August 3rd.

[as I see it]

Responding to 'bjm'

I can't quite figure out why my posting inspired such a bizarre response from you so perhaps you can elaborate?

I wrote : YESTERDAY IS GONE This is a true and philosophical ageless statement.
You responded "you dont(sic)seem to get it"

Gee, I think I do 'get it' having paved the road that you are now traveling. But I didn't do it as a scab or son of a scab.

Then Rhodes Scholar 'bjm' goes on to state:
" I Truly Dont(sic)Care If You or Anyone Else Classifies It As A Loss. I will go into retirement knowing I did the right thing."

Dear Brother: "as I see it' never mentioned "loss", and I'm at a 'loss' to understand why you inserted this. Yes, you will go into retirement knowing you "did the right thing". I wonder what that heroic 'right thing' is. Is it retiring when you are eligible...?

"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
You probably don't remember the movie