Secret Shoppers...Take A Break

The Lockheed Martin AFSS main computer system was shut down overnight March 11-12 to do a software upgrade.  The main FS21 computer at LM should have been shut down for only a couple of hours overnight, but it ended up down for  about 24 hours because the fix they were adding was not right.
 
As has happened several times in the past, the upgrade resulted in a full collapse of the main fS21 system, and briefers had to work with the backup computers.  They were also told during a system wide telcon that even though some data was not reliable, to go ahead and use it anyway.

But it gets worse.

The FAA has "secret shoppers" that call LMAFSS for briefings, and then score the service that LM provides.  This is known as the "Performance Metric 2A Evaluation."  Ahhh, thanks Marion...a performance based system at last!  Blakey's term in office makes the Hindenberg look like a popcorn fart.

But anyway...part of the Lockheed Martin bonus is based upon this scoring system on how the work is being done.  These are RANDOM EVALUATIONS done by FAA hired auditors that determine part of the payment for the contract.

Guess what happened during the unscheduled outage?

Someone at Lockheed Martin CALLED THE FAA OFFICE IN CHARGE OF THESE EVALUATIONS, AND ASKED THAT THE EVALUATIONS BE SUSPENDED UNTIL THE COMPUTERS WERE FIXED.  Worse still, the FAA managers running the evaluations AGREED to stop the evaluations until the computers were fixed.   Whaaaaaaa?

Yeah, it really happened.  Shouldn't the FAA be evaluating the service, NO MATTER THE CONDITIONS of the computers LM is using? 

Weren't those 24 trouble-filled hours part of the time LockMart agreed to provide Flight Service?  Why in God's name would you NOT evaluate your service provider when they were doing their absolute WORST work? 

Translate to air traffic---The New York TRACON is having a lot of operational errors and separation difficulties.  Am I to understand that the Manager should call the FAA in Washington and ask them to suspend further evaluation of the facility until performace improves?  (Marion and other dullards:  the correct answer is "no.")

It's no wonder the Administrators Fact Book for this year has the following disasterous data:

Jan-Sept 2006 17,705,000 FSS operations

Jan-Sept 2007 8,200,000 FSS operations

NINE MILLION PILOTS HAVE GIVEN UP.  (And how IS that search for Steve Fossett coming, anyway?)

NINE MILLION PILOTS HAVE given up on service.  Given up on safety.  Given up on reliability.  And given up on their government holding their best interests at heart.  Nice job, AOPA.  You led your members to SLAUGHTER on this one.  If the President of AOPA had the integrity God gave your average hamster turd he would resign in disgrace.  He turned his membership into "Client Number One," and they got front-of-the-line priveleges for a good, clean screwing. 

(Bragging note because, yes, Virginia, I do have an ego:  I correctly fought the privatization sons-of-bitches from long before my first day in office to my last.  In fact...some controllers will recall a particularly impassioned speach I gave at the microphone at one of our conventions...92, 94, 96, I don't recall.  All I remember is how it ended:  "Pick up a brick and fight.")

Now, get this.  The guy that ran this service into the ground after the FAA gave it to LM was Dan Courain, who just stepped down from the project, supposedly to retire.  He was the Lockheed guy in charge from October 2005, until very recently.

Rumor has it he just got a $1.5 Mill BONE-US.

For what.....destroying an integral part of the national airspace system?  For stealing pensions and retirements from 2500 deserving federal employees?  For cutting "customer traffic" in half, as your "customers" give up on your stupid ass and rely instead on the fat black weather guy on the Today Show?

Sort of like the FAA manager that told Southwest it was OK to delay inspections.

Specialists nationwide got an internal email on Saturday from Ron Petro (he replaced Dan Courain as the head of the AFSS program) acknowledging that things were not so great the day the computers went down; however, they worked to fix the problem.  Mr. Petro went on to state in that internal email that the FAA agreed to suspend the evaluations until the problems were fixed. 

This is an internal LM email to all employees through their communications director, and here's the salient portion:

March 14, 2008

Communique' from Ron Petro to AFSS Specialists

Hi everyone,

I know that I don't have to tell you guys that from a system standpoint yesterday was very disappointing.  The problem with the system turned out to be a memory issue or what the technical folks call a memory allocation/deallocation error.  In any case it was finally resolved late yesterday.  We have put a team in place ti do a complete bottom up review of the test system to understand how a problem like this could make it through test and not show up until we were in production.

At one point in the morning, it looked pretty gloomy.  The service level was abysmal and we were getting pounded.  By mid morning you folks had jumped in and brought things back under control.  You did a superb job and I'm proud to be a part of a workforce that pulls together like you do.  You demonstrated what a team is all about!  You immediately went to back-up using all available tools to take care if the pilots.  Many of you stayed over and others came in just to work during a difficult time. 

We had every  available person certified as a pilot weather briefer on position including QAS and PPS.  As a result, we ended the day in pretty good shape.  The service level yesterday was 80.3% with only a 4% abandon rate both of which are well within the APL goals.  We actually received several compliments from pilots on your professionalism and attitude during what was a difficult and stressful period.  The FAA did agree to suspend 2a evals during this period but not before you folks had several passes with very high scores.  Also during this period wehad two individuals who passed their National Weather Service (NWS) evals.  The word WOW just seems inadequate in describing what you folks did!

While I have a complete copy I am hesitant to put it up here---these guys work black ops and spook shit and there's no telling if they digitally fingerprinted it.  I don't want to get my spies fired or anything.

The head of the program admits the Failed Aviation Administration agreed to suspend evaluations on this government contract---the very evaluations that determine LockMart's success and bonus money.  He tries to justify it by saying, hey, you passed a couple of evals before you would have augered in faster than United 93 trying to provide half-ass service to half the customers you had last year.  Nicely done, Marion.  You got your Flight Service running like a business, all right.  A very shoddy, crappy mortuary.

These criminals stole 2500 pensions from hard working civil servants so they could do THIS?  I swear, a tribunal of some sort is in order.  Let's get a few of these skulls stuck on sticks out in front of 800 Independence as a warning to the next group. 

Comments

[Don't bother to call]

I'm a pilot-

I gave up getting briefings last year, after I waited on the phone for a half-hour, only to have the person tell me that they had swtiched me from Lansing FSS (michigan) to someplace in Florida, who didn't have a clue where to find winds aloft information after I even had to give HIM the icao identified for the two places in my state that do winds aloft.

Now, I fly on a wing and a prayer.

[Dis Gusted]

Yesterday Lock-Mart calls our facility to tell the CIC that FYE NDB is Out of Service. That's nice except FYE is in Fayette Co. Tennessee and he called Fayetteville NC. This is just one example of the continuous joke they now call Flight Service.

[adam]

Thanks alot neocons. You sorry bastards haven't been right about a thing in your lives. Please quit spouting your ignorant bullshit about privatizing everything. Your ideas have proven to be failures time and time again. Please go away.

[Johnny]

I recently overheard a Blackhawk pilot on his cell phone talking to a FSS trying to close out a flight plan. They'd lost it, and then it sounded like he was trying to explain the difference between VFR and IFR flight to the person on the other end.
I haven't flown in years, but I'd never heard of a flight plan being lost, so I called an old high school buddy who recently got his pilot's license, to ask him what his experience had been. He said that he had NEVER filed a flight plan that DIDN'T get lost. Amazing.

[WE ARE CONTROLLERS]

From AVWEB Question of the week. Looks like they wouls of failed by the users evaluations.

Nice to see FAA/LM management answer in their behalf. ATC knows what the fuse is about when we can't find the flight plan and we have to explain LM fuck up.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/qotw/QuestionOfTheWeek_WinterFlying_197313-1.html

PREVIOUS RESULTS ***

The AFSS system has been privatized for a while now, and last week we asked AVweb readers about their recent flight service experiences.

The biggest segment of respondents (a full 41%) told us the state of FSS is terrible, and I'm increasingly using alternatives.

For the complete breakdown of reader answers, click here.
(You may be asked to register and answer, if you haven't already participated in this poll.)

How have your recent flight service experiences been lately?

The service is great, and I don't know what the fuss has been about. 6% 42 votes



The service has become better, but there is still room for improvement. 14% 95 votes



It was much better when the FAA ran it, but I can still use it. 20% 134 votes



It's terrible, and I'm increasingly using alternatives. 43% 280 votes



I never use it because it's too frustrating. 16% 105 votes

[RevTC]

from the letter: "The word WOW just seems inadequate.."

I agree. That's just how I feel about everything, for a long time now. It's hard not to look at the FAA (from LEX to the St Louis lovefest to Marion to staffing nationwide to the quality of OJT at every level, you name it) and just be at a loss for words.

WOW.

[west coast reader]

And Bobby is wondering if the relationship between the FAA nad "our customers" is too cozy (Jerry's words on Friday)? Here is yet another example of the FAA looking the other way when they don't want to know the answer...

[Under 200 Days]

I'm stuck working CIC at XYZ Tracon when LochMart calls about a NOTAM. He asks if we service ABC Tower (which we do since ABC Tower and XYZ Tracon are in the same building and we're a Tower/Tracon). I told him that we do as that's where I was sitting. Anybody within 6 states would know that, but I'm sure he was in New Mexacalichusetts.

[Corporate Pilot]

I have to agree, that the LM/FSS is in downward spiral that it does not appear they will be able to recover from. The problem being, who is going to care? They will continue to get paid by our government so what incentive do they have to change?
I still use the system mostly for pure entertainment value, and the never ending right to lodge complaints on their complaint line. 888/FLT-SRVC. The strange part is that I get a very quick response on every complaint that I lodge. No matter if it is one of the dozens on flight plans that have been lost, many of which going to the Washington ADIZ as per the NOTAM that states flight plan must be filed with FSS or Duats, or dropped calls, or incompetent information, or simply a rude briefer. I now know the complaint department person on a first name basis. They only seem to have one person who can come up with a dozen different reasons for the complaint, almost all of which does not have to do with them, or so they say. But the complaint count gets logged anyway.

I have to respectfully disagree with the putting down of the AOPA's handling of the LM/FSS changeover. Unless I completely missed something, AOPA held the same views from the beginning that privatizing this service was a bad move but was unable to stop it from occurring. They are the same people that brought the complaint line into existence, but with the number of complaints being submitted dropping more and more every day, it is hard to fight against the current operations. I would agree that the complaints have dropped mainly because people one do not use the services anymore because of being dissatisfied, and two, because they feel their complaints are not being addressed. With not many people complaining about the system, the problems will not be addressed. I welcome any facts to change my view, but that is how I currently see it.

Great blog, love all your insightfulness.

[lowskillset]

Next time my job performance gets criticized, I'm going to explain that is was just a "memory allocation/deallocation error." If it works for Lockheed/Martin, it should work for me too.

[Leavin' Soon...]

Until one of these thieves goes to prison, the current regime will continue to dismantle the NAS, for profit, one piece at a time.....

[ZZ-Retired]

This just in... The FAA has put all inspectors on "Double Secret Probation "

[Nummy]

Sunday 3am had PA31 report moderate rime icing @ 130. Leaving 110 he says he's getting an inch every couple minutes. Probably extreme, anyway, even at 3am I think its worth passing along. I call and the folks in Leesburg NEVER answer. After 20 rings I give up. Thanx LM.

[IFR Pilot]

Yea, I'm with Corporate Pilot. Very scary the FSS is. I called for an IFR release at a small airport last week. Even though I should have been connected to a 'local FSS,' it was clear the briefer had no idea where I was.

He stammered through the flight information and put me on hold. Finally, came back and said the local TRACON had an 800 number and I should call them.

Why bother? I am in fear that out of Internet contact, I won't get a reliable briefing. Maybe now that's a no-go?

Could the sale of the FSS been done any more poorly?

Keep banging away JTB.

[Charliefox]

John, comments like this "And how IS that search for Steve Fossett coming, anyway?" and about Flight 93 are completely out of line. There are still a few aircraft listed as missing/never found that date back to the days BEFORE the AFSS program - yeah, that's right even when there was an FSS about every 50 or so miles. There was an FAA before you were hired in the 1990's. As for the tragic events of 9/11...way over the line. Oh, the Hindenbug footage...well, next time an argument ensues between FAA Management types why not use quotes from the recently upheld suspension of the guy at IAD as an "example" of what was said.

[Annie]

Would you please submit this in report form to Henry Waxman, Chair of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee(link at my name) and to Dan Froomkin of the Washington Post (his email address is at the White House Watch blog column page)?

[SOS]

Just look at the NOTAM info for AFSS communication outlets. It is a small piece of the pie but stuff stays broke for weeks
not hours. Like I said, the cubicle rat bean counters in HQ are only focused on money and ego. A pathetic group of greedy little sycophants who could care less if someones wife or kids are on that puddle jumper caught low on fuel with ice building on the wings. FAA sycophant management is all about MONEY and EGO. Human lives? Who cares?

[FedUp]

Lockheed landed the contract at a reduced price and is now providing only the reduced service they can afford at that reduced price.

It's interesting that Lockheed considers a 4% abandonment rate, callers hanging up in disgust and frustration, to be acceptable. Maybe our ATC facility should abandon 4% of our arrivals and departures.

[ExATC]

John, I agree with everything you said about suspending evaluations, but you missed one point that is critical to understanding these evals - the evaluators are complete morons who are doing far more harm than good.

Imagine that one day you get evaluated by the Big Johnson. Here's a guy who has separated anything more than the cheeks of his butt for the last 20 years, but suddenly he's going to evaluate your performance. He opens the .65 and reads some of the paragraphs at random, then announces that you have FAILED your evaluation because you didn't have 10 minutes separation between two aircraft. You point out that the book says 10 minutes OR 5 miles, but he says sorry, he doesn't read it that way. You have failed. There is no appeal and no recourse. The next day a memo goes out to all facilities that says you now have to have 10 minutes separation and if you don't it's a failure - of course, the system would grind to a halt if you do this, so we would prefer you continue using 5 miles, BUT if you fail another evaluation because you didn't use 10 minutes we're going to decertify and retrain you, and maybe fire you.

Some of us continued to try to do things properly because we've been doing this for 25 years and we care about the job - or used to. I'm at the point now where I don't care. They want 10 minutes they get 10 minutes. Don't like the delays? Take it up with the FAA.

[Aluminum showers]

Corporate pilot said:

"Unless I completely missed something, AOPA held the same views from the beginning that privatizing this service was a bad move but was unable to stop it from occurring"

You are wrong. Phil Boyer could have stopped it, and he didn't. John Carr and the rest of us went to the mat to try and stop it, but Phil Boyer went along with the gamble, and lost.

Here is what was published back in 2005, when Lockheed Martin was competing for the contract, and Phil Boyer was helping fight against the effort to get Congress to put in language that would make all air traffic control "inhereently governmental".

Flight Service Station Reform to Continue

Although the unions' original goal was to have all of air traffic control redesignated as "inherently governmental" and hence required to be provided by federal employees, the final language in the House and Senate bills was more limited. Hence, the ATC support functions of equipment maintenance and Flight Service Stations (FSSs) are exempt from the bill's four-year ban on outsourcing.

That means that the FAA's current FSS competition study, under OMB's revised A-76 process, will go forward. This is an 18 month effort, already under way, to compare the costs and effectiveness of outsourcing some or all FSS functions with continued FSS operation by the FAA. Under the A-76 rules, the FAA may submit its own proposal for a revamped and modernized operation, for comparison with what would likely emerge from private-sector bids. If it appears that the private sector could do a better job, the FAA would go out to bid for the relevant services.

Flight Service Stations provide flight-plan filing services, weather briefings, and other miscellaneous services to pilots; 80% of FSS transactions are with general aviation (GA) pilots. Unfortunately, the FSS system "is in a state of decline and disrepair, with escalating costs and reduced service." So says Phil Boyer, president of AOPA, in the June issue of AOPA Pilot. Citing both GAO and Inspector General Studies, Boyer notes that FSS now eats up $600 million a year-about three times what GA pilots pay in fuel taxes. That works out to a cool $2,700 per GA plane, per year. Boyer notes that each pilot contact with FSS costs $20; by comparison, the FAA's privately contracted DUATS service costs just $1.50 per contact. Boyer also notes that FSS modernization plans are years behind schedule and way over budget (like many other FAA modernization efforts). The long-awaited OASIS replacement for the 1970s-era FSS computers "may be obsolete by the time it is fully implemented."

Despite normally standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the FAA unions against any form of privatization, Boyer has carefully steered AOPA and its members to support the current competition study. A survey of its members found that 65% would support outsourcing of FSS services, as long as this did not result in the imposition of user fees (which is not planned; no fees are charged for DUATS services). As Boyer notes, "Flight service stations must be modernized and briefings brought down in cost, or FSS will face extinction. . . . A-76 could very well provide the best route of flight."

[less than gruntled]

@CharlieFox

John's comment "And how IS that search for Steve Fossett coming, anyway?" IS RELEVANT in a big way.

In two separate interviews I've read both were puzzled by Steve's not filling a VFR flight plan as he had done religiously for years.

It's not hard to imagine that a billionaire (on any other sane person) may have got a wee bit tired of being on hold for hours in a attempt to file a flightplan only to be hung up on.

Maybe if flight "service" hadn't become so unusable by being privatized out Steve would have filled out a detailed vfr flight plan and we could have rescued.

In the first months of the change over I tried to call FSS from my tracon to give a pilot report on my direct line. Usually no one answered.

In one case I persistently called over a dozen times only to have the harried understaffed "professional" pick up and scream at me "I'm too busy for that! I'm the only one working. Don't call back!"

What a nightmare. We are going to have a billion dollar boondoggle of a contract for a service that no pilot even uses anymore

[Bob]

Lockheed is using a backup system called AISR during FS21 outages. This system is completely funded outside the Lockheed contract. Lockheed's use of this system is just another FAA/Taxpayer funded subsidy. The FAA continues to hide the true cost of the Lockheed contract through programs like AISR.

[D]

I also had an icing report from an arrival just above my airspace. Tried for 2 minutes to get FSS/LM. Eventually called the other 2 sectors it effected and passed it directly to them. The new FSS is AWEFUL.

[RIF'd AFSS'r]

Corporate Pilot,

Phil "All I Can Say Is Wow" Boyer was one of the biggest cheerleaders for privatization. Even when we tried to warn him what would happen, he turned a deaf ear to us. Now that Flight Service is down the tubes, he still takes an arrogant stance defending his position and won't admit he was dead wrong. When a pilot has a gripe or complaint, I wish I had Boyer's phone number to give to the pilot so he can personally say thanks to uncle Phil. It's not just the equipment that's bad, the whole system is ruined. Local knowledge didn't just mean area knowledge to weather brief, it meant knowing what frequencies were in your area for Flight Service, Center(s), tracons,etc. Knowing who to call and coordinate in case of an emergency. Phil said local,knowledge will not suffer, that was one of the first casualties in consolidation. Proper training went out the window too. The LM "Academy" is much shorter than the FAA Flight Service academy. OJT training is also alot shorter. It used to be you had OJT training in briefing that would cover a few season's worth of weather so you can learn it with a trainer instead of on your own. I won't even go into the NOTAM debacle. From what I understand, NOTAM's weren't supposed to be privatized with the NOTAM's office handling them. The FAA then dumped it on LM because "Flight Service always did them". LM was caught short and implemented NOTAM software that's a joke. The Flight Service system is broken, probably beyond repair. So a big thanks go out to Marion, Joann, Ventris,and the rest of the FAA criminals. More thanks go to Uncle Phil and is grandstanding for privatization. Aalso to the neocons who think privatization is a great thing, and lastly to Dan Courain, how about passing out some of that million + bonus to the people who kept the system from totally collapsing and continue to do it today!!!! Since I don't have a pension anymore, I can use all the money I can get!!!

[glad I'm retired]

I used to work for FSS/AFSS. Ever since consolidation, service has deteriorated. Pilots (and I'm one) used to enjoy the personal contact...now it's nearly impossible to even visit an AFSS. I used to be an AOPA member...not anymore. I cancelled my membership because of what Phil Boyer and the FAA had done in their effort to destroy General Aviation. Boyer should have long ago resigned in disgrace. The statistics (above and in the future) will show that pilots have given up on the system...no doubt Steve Fossett had. Can you blame him/them? The only time I will ever "call" Flight Service is to activate or close a flight plan to another country or upon return. And I think I can do most, if not all of this on my computer using an assumed departure. If they lose my flight plan or I'm not able to close because I'm unable to contact them, tough noogies...they can come look for me. That's their responsibility because I did what was required of me. The FAA (and Phil Boyer) claim that millions will be saved by using this "new" system. Based upon what I have seen, the L/M system will be costing much more than the previous "inherently government" operation. And when LockMart discovers that their operation isn't as profitable as anticipated, be prepared for user fees.

[abieber]

I've been a controller for 28 years. 21 years FAA 7 years Military. I never ever, ever, ever, had the problems passing information critical to flight safety like I have, since FSS was contracted out. We have two dial lines to Prescott flight service they never answer the lines. I put it on the tape unable to contact flight service to pass icing conditions North of Tucson. I then call on a landline to pass the information and half the time they don't answer the phone. This is a disgrace and puts all of the flying public at risk. It is unsafe and unacceptable. If you are a GA pilot, Air Carrier, Air taxi, Military, your government is putting you and your passengers/crew at risk. Please call your members of Congress and ask them to fix this unsafe situation.

Angry Fokker

[under 5 rears left in the FAA]

I was working the XXX sector at ZXX. Two aircraft were going into AAA, an uncontrolled airport. The first aircraft asks if runway 9-27 was closed. I had no NOTAM on this, so I called flight service. It rang for about a minute before had to hang up, getting back to my traffic (one-man sectors, no staffing problem!). The first aircraft was at the field for his visual approach, so I cleared him in emphasizing that I could not reach FSS and that the runway may very well be closed. He said he would land another runway and cancelled his IFR. I called FSS back and they answered after a few seconds. I told them "This is the XXX sector at ZXX. I want to check and see if runway 9-27 is closed at AAA airport." Then I spelled the airport identifier for him. I heard typing and after about 30 seconds he replied "Is that near the BBB airport?". I replied that is was about 40 miles southeast of BBB. He said "okay" and I heard more typing. Another 30 seconds go by and he says "Sorry to ask this, but how far is that from CCC?". I said " I've got to go!", gave my initials and hung up. The second airplane was nearing AAA as the first one came back on the frequency and advised that 9-27 was indeed closed.

So this is what it has come down to: FSS doesn't even put out NOTAMs for closed runways, and the only way to check on it is to have an airplane land at the airport then report back to the controllers. Nice.

[rc]

The real stories by Air Traffic Control Specialists in the trenches do not lie my friends. Screw all the opinions by those who don't do the job! The story by 5 years left, speaks volumes. Been there done that, I understand.

[RIF'd AFSS'r]

under 5 years,

That's another example of the importance of local knowledge being ignored. Specialists are expected to work 2-3 areas worth of Data & Inflight positions with inadequate training for the areas they're expected to know. That's also the reason why controllers will call for info from Flight Service and no one answers because one person is doing the work of 2 or more people. It's not uncommon that Flight Service stations can't get in touch with each other. In the old (FAA) Flight Service system, that specialist would have known that runway was closed because that NOTAM would have been issued by that station and the issuing specialist would have let the rest of the station know and also would have coordinated that NOTAM with you. Now, someone in Prescott AZ could issue a NOTAM for an airport in Maine and if you're lucky, the proper people would be notified.

[RIF'd AFSS'r]

Angry Fokker,

Back before Flight Service was privatized, NAATS tried to get the GA and Bizav communities to write their senators and congressmen to stop or at least delay privatization until it could be studied more. Unfortunately the aviation community didn't respond. There're pilots out there who still think Flight Service is run by the FAA. Also, the senators and congressmen helped sell us down the river. They either didn't care or they did what their "friends" at LM wanted them to do. When the language about ATC being inherently governmental was in the Transportation bill, W pissed and pouted about that language and when the so called friend of ATC, Sen. Lautenburg of NJ, made sure that AFSS and AF were not included in the inherently governmental language, W had no problem passing the bill.

[EC]

I wonder if the Hindinburg (SP?) had let their inspections lapse on the approval of an FAA inspector??

[scaredtoflynow]

Wow is right! Holy cow, does anyone know how to get a hold of the FAA fraud and abuse line or whatever it is? Or an inspector general? I tried googling, but can't find it for the FAA at least, because is is unreal that they just looked the other way! Just like Southwest that was just on the news! How is this not fraud, working with the FAA to avoid evaluations or inspections. Same thing!!!!!And this is the GUY IN CHARGE?????

[FAAATCERSEENENOUGH]

but with the number of complaints being submitted dropping more and more every day, it is hard to fight against the current operations.

THE ABOVE COMMENT HAS ME WONDERING NOW... ARE WE HEARING THE TRUE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS TO THE FAA, OR IS THE FAA COVERING THAT UP TOO? MAYBE SOME PAYOFFS TO AOPA, ETC? AND YES PEOPLE... PILOTS ARE GIVING UP?

[dcaAFSScontroller]

i work at the HUB facility located in DC and I heard the telcon, and seen some of what happened. (they used a back room with curtains drawn for some discussions). rumor is there is a tape going to the washingtonpost of this telcon and what was said about just use the data anyway. i haven't heard it but i saw some of what was happening that morning.
the lady in charge of the evals in the faa is named jeannie gearing (may not be spelled right, just heard her name then), and here at lockheed kevin george is the one that works with the faa on issues (external communications i believe it is called) it would be his offices probably doing this deal to suspend evaluations.

[ZZ-Retired]

When are you people going to get it ?
NOTHING is going to change until there are bodies falling from the sky, controllers unite, A dem gets in the White House or Pat is removed.
Letters to whoever don't go anywhere. Calling the IG and waiting for FAA Re-authorization to be passed is a waste of time. If McCain gets elected it will be like Bush getting a 3rd term. LM cannot wait to get their hands on ATC.
sad but true.

[Retired]

ZZ, so if Pat is removed, that will get some results. Get a grip.

[RIF'd AFSS'r]

ZZ-retired,

You're absolutely right!!! LM wants the rest of ATC and McCain will give it to them!!!

[ZZ-retired]

Hey Retired, how are things going for you now ? If JTB was the president I guarantee we would have some direction and not be in this mess. Grip this !

[FAA8675309]

I called FSS one night and the fellow told me that he was somewhere in the DC area.

He and one other person were working SIX flight service stations COMBINED.

Green Bay FSS, Terre Haute FSS, Dayton FSS, Kankakee FSS, Lansing FSS, and Cleveland FSS.

[passdave]

scaredtoflynow,
you can contact the Dept. of Transportation's IG at http://www.oig.dot.gov/Hotline
or call them at
Call 1-800-424-9071 (toll free).
Fax your concerns to 540-373-2090.
E-mail your concerns to hotline@oig.dot.gov
Mail your concerns to: DOT Inspector General, P.O. Box 708, Fredericksburg, VA 22404
Good luck!! Maybe if enough people file the complaints, they will do something. Congress is too scared to.

[WhoKnows]

FSS calls us up the other day and I pick up the Flight Data ring line. The guy tells me that our VOR is back in service. Bemused, I asked which one. He says our airport identifier, "XYZ".

I find this amusing because:
* We have no VOR on our field.
* The closest VOR is 15 miles away.
* That VOR has a completely different name and identifier than our airport.

If their weather briefings are as accurate as their NOTAMs, God help the pilots.

[Retired]

ZZ, things are good here, except for the weather.

It's easy to guarantee things would be getter with JTB. They might indeed, or maybe not. I just get tired of the constant blaming of Pat for our problems. He's doing what he thinks is best. Some may not like it, but he is the president. It's a free country. Disagree all you want, but there's no reason to trash Pat while doing it.

[SOS]

I would think contacting the DOT IG would be like calling the wolves to guard the hen house. I think we should flood the media
with info. The IG will just sweep it under the rug. Don't want those big business guys to lose any money do we? The American public is being force fed a giant Turd by the FAA and Lock-mart. It's all a SCAM. Tony Soprano would be proud of the current FAA crooks.

[Corporate Pilot]

Well, thank you for the info and setting me straight about Phil. I was not paying close enough attention to the issues back then as I am these days. I can only blame myself for that.

It is very apparent that this issue really sparks a fire under most people. Quite evident but the 40+ comments posted thus far. Again thanks for giving me the info on Phil and the AOPA's stance on this FSS issue.

[ZZ-Retired]

Retired, Please read Johns current blog on his case and then tell me about what you think of PAT. Also,I hope you don't feel the same way about Bush as you do Pat.

[FromAway]

Couldn't agree with the majority of the posts more. FSS is in a flat spin and we all know how difficult recovery is from a flat spin. FAA IG.....forget it. Like someone said, fox guarding the hen house. Congress, don't get me started. I could wallpaper my living room with the incoherent replies from them. Pilots got the shaft. It shows in the numbers. The recent "failure" of the "Wow" system is unbelievable. On my blog, http://fs21fc.blogspot.com/ I have posted the list of services that FSS used to do that were realigned or terminated. If you work in a tower or center, see what the FAA has passed on to you.

Can you say..."This is Lockheed Martins' New York Center, can I help you?"

[WOWZA]

you can contact the Dept. of Transportation's IG at http://www.oig.dot.gov/Hotline
or call them at
Call 1-800-424-9071 (toll free).
Fax your concerns to 540-373-2090.
E-mail your concerns to hotline@oig.dot.gov
Mail your concerns to: DOT Inspector General, P.O. Box 708, Fredericksburg, VA 22404
Good luck!! Maybe if enough people file the complaints, they will do something. Congress is too scared to.

jeannie gearing (may not be spelled right, just heard her name then), and here at lockheed kevin george....

PASTED FROM ABOVE, ...AND RON PETRO....

BESIDES WASHINGTON POST, HOW ABOUT FEDERAL TIMES?

SEND IN THOSE NAMES

RON PETRO, LM HEAD GUY AT LM FLIGHT SERVICE, JEANNIE GEARING OF THE FAA EVALS, AND KEVIN GEORGE OF LM.

THOSE ARE THE NAMES TO PASS. THIS IS TO REAL NOT TO. IF PEOPLE IN THE FAA DID THIS WITH SOUTHWEST, MAYBE THOUSANDS OF PASSENGERS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PUT AT RISK.

THIS IS WORKING TOGETHER TO AVOID TRUE EVALUATIONS OF A TAXPAYER FUNDED CONTRACT.

[glad I'm retired]

I tend to go along with "SOS" and "FromAway". Flight Service is a dead duck in that uncontrollable flat spin. Thanks, FAA, AOPA and Dubya...you are doing a "fine" job. Puke!!

[Ljjk j]

tell your ma tell your pa call the IG from Arkansas. Good Bust John, because this is so blatant and straight up easy to prove. They are bold, that's for sure! Like they KNOW they can get away with it.

[nwprlc]

If McCain gets elected and the GOP gains control of one or both legislative bodies by 2011, he'll do the same thing to ATC that Bush did to FSS. The service will plummet and the fabric of the NAS will be torn to pieces....while Boeing or Lochmart or whomever pockets all or part of FAA's 14 plus billion dollar annual appropriation.

I'm eligible in March 2010 and have no intention of hanging around waiting for that broken down old man McCain to steal my pension and my federal health benefits while he scrounges for money to keep fighting Bush's Iraqi war for another century.

[FromAway]

Curious why the post from Wayne (working at the DFW LM site) was removed???

[ZZ-retired]

nwprlc, I could not agree with you more. What worries me is that McCain and the GOP Nazis will not stop at contracting out ATC to save money, they will go after our retirement money too.
I can hear them now " everyone has to sacrafice their fair share and the retired federal employees are going to lead the way "
Notice ,we don't hear from the idiots who voted for "W" and/or support McCain anymore but you can bet your ass they are sitting right next to you in the control room.

[RIF'd AFSS'r]

McCain has always ben a proponant of ATC privatization. I'm sure he probably has friends at LM, so you know they will be the frontrunners for takeover. LM still thinks they did an outstanding job with Flight Service, so you know they'll get a chance to do the same with ATC.

[glad I'm retired]

"Outstanding job with Flight Service"??? You've got to be shitting me !

[RIF'd AFSS'r]

Glad,

I shit you not!!!

[Stephen Ramsden]

I was providing OJTI onthe busiest arrival sector in the world (Lanier-ZTL) last week and some girl calls up on the land line and wants to forward an ulit tower NOTAM to me. I explained that I was a high altitude sector and that I did not recognize the identifier (turned out to be in southern IL) and could not help her. She called back 3 minutes later and tried again. i had to shut off the ringer. Nice Job Marion.

[Lockheed SUX!]

START FILING UCRS. EVEN A BIG NATIONAL ONE IF NEEDED.

NOTHING WILL GET DONE UNTIL THESE INSTANCES GET DOCUMENTED.

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT.